Yet another Pretender overhaul idea

Objective: Become the King by any means necessary. You still win even if you die after taking the throne.

Passives:
Royal Blood: Same as live (during elections for a new King, votes for you count twice)
No Allegiance: If you become the King, bad things happen.
“Bad Thing” Possibility 1: All players lose 1 charge from their limited-charge abilities.
“Bad Thing” Possibility 2: All players who voted for you lose 1 charge from their limited-charge abilities.
“Bad Thing” Possibility 3: One player who voted for you, picked randomly, is executed during today’s trial. The player randomly picked can only be a member of the Blue Dragon, the Unseen, or the Cult. A “second trial” will not be held.
“Bad Thing” Possibility 4: You become Immortal (even Death Immune piercing attacks cannot kill you) and no one can vote for you to go to trial.
“Bad Thing” Possibility 5: Trials can no longer be held for the remainder of the game.

Day Abilities:
Troll the King: Make it look like the King says something. They will not see the message. (note that you can only make the King say something, unlike Fool/Scorned’s version of Troll Box) In addition, silence the King for 20 seconds.
Ballot Mixing: Reverse the King’s vote during a trial. They will see their vote as normal and not be informed their vote was switched unless your switch caused the decision to swing in a different outcome.
Examples of Ballot Mixing: 4e-4p vote. You switch the King’s Pardon to Execute and now it’s a 5-3 vote; he’ll be informed he was swapped and see Execute. 1e-6p vote. You switch the King’s Pardon to Execute, and it becomes 2-5; everyone else will see he voted Execute, while he’ll still see he voted Pardon.

Night Abilities:
Hired Help: Enlist the aid of a hired Alchemist, who will heal you tonight. 3 charges.
Kinslayer: Attack the King. If they’re being guarded by a Knight, you will not attack and will not lose a charge. 2 charges.

My idea here is that the Pretender is not someone that anyone wants in power because of the bad things. The bad thing that happens could virtually be anything, but as a side idea, what if there was a list of bad things and either the Pretender picked one, or it was just randomly chosen? Whatever the outcome, it’s sure to cause chaos for everyone else, but you don’t care since you just won. Also the list of bad things are just suggestions; it could theoretically be anything.

You just need the King throne; you don’t actually need to keep friends once you get there. But unlike live, you lose your death immunity (in exchange for a few heal charges) and lose any way to actually help the BD, making it much harder to get the throne (whereas today you just play Immune Princess and the BD roll over and give you the throne, then you need to keep the evil players’ trust so they don’t kill you). That said, the Troll the King ability is an upgraded Troll Box that also has Distract tied to it. It will be easier to make the King look bad and either lose trust or get executed.

TL;DR: Now no one wants a Pretender in the King’s spot since it will cause chaos and potentially even bad things for the evil faction. Pretender’s much harder to get the throne without any way to “help” the BD, but it’s much easier to get a King out and make them look suspicious.

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is this a joke

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please

tell me this is a joke

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I like the idea ^^ not exactly sure about the execution of the idea, but this is what Pretender is supposed to be: a kingslayer which isn’t just a BD Princess

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Instead of posting the same thing twice, perhaps you could say why it’s such a joke to you? This was a serious post because the current iteration of Pretender has no focus and makes no sense. I figured “hey, let’s make Pretender more neutral, focused on the King spot specifically, and a touch more chaotic”. What’s so bad about my suggestion for those goals?

Exactly. They’re here to take the throne and not to make friends with people. Being a neutral, people should not want a Pretender in the King’s throne. There should be some penalty or bad thing happening for electing them instead of just a Neutral King.

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the actual abilities are barely a problem, it’s just the absurd swinginess of the election effects that makes this completely busted

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The reason I posted the same thing twice is because the possibilities are basically a joke. All of the abilities confirm that pretender is now king which makes fake claiming pretender useless, as well as the fact that possibility 4 is broken and possibility 5 LITERALLY makes the game unplayable for blue dragon.

Also this is a very easy pretender to win as.

Which is the purpose, since you should not be able to open claim Pretender anymore.

Why shouldn’t someone be able to fake claim pretender?

Like I get what this class is going for, I just don’t think it’s going to work the way he/she is going imagine it working out as and I think if this class was rolled in a game he would want it to change back to the original pretender.

Like it’s a more frustrating fool at this point.

Because right now almost every Pretender is just open claiming BD Pretender or Princess, and this is not how the class should work.
Fool is a fine class, I don’t see why the Pretender couldn’t be similiar :woman_shrugging: It’s supposed to be a counter to the king, and having negative effects to each faction prevents open claiming.

It’s suppose to be a counter to the king, not be a counter to the whole king elections. Also I think the easiest way to solve this is to just give people a reward for killing the pretender if they are king and see if the pretender can still convince people to let them live

I think it would be more interesting then just out right denying anyone the right to claim pretender

Well, if you think so, feel free to open your own thread with your own suggestion

Also priestess just making sure you think possibility 5 is also busted right

Yeah, I see 4 and 5 as basically impossible.

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I’m not sure that’s the claim you want to be going with in this crowd.

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Because ideally that’s the equivalent of claiming scorned. The entire point behind the class is to make elected Kings less trustworthy. Which means the Pretender itself must not be trustworthy.

It’s also why she DOES need to have a win condition beyond becoming King. Otherwise she just resolves as a BD King half the time like right now. Even if there is an artificial punishment for electing her that doesn’t change the fact that she isn’t making elected Kings any more scummy unless she herself has reasons to harm BD once she is Kinged.

That’s why I want Pretender King to have the SS wincon. So she can want to hurt BD once Kinged by definition thus ensuring that she will side with Evils and ensuring the BD will want her dead and thus will kill an elected King that they think is a Pretender.

They were examples. You could make them anything, but a bad thing should happen if Pret is elected instead of “oh we now have a Neut King”. No trials was more or less a bit extreme. I highly doubt that would ever happen.

See above. Pret also shouldn’t be a claim, though that’s more that there’s no good claims for evils to begin with, especially Killers.

Really? I see it as more difficult. Sure in the current meta of “yeah vote up the Pret” it’s easy as hell, but once we have a “fool” of sorts for the King spot, I highly doubt it’ll be so easy when you have literally no way to actually give real logs. Blood test, the one thing you can use to claim “Princess” is gone. I doubt most will vote up an unconfirmed S/I with fake logs.

It’s currently counter to nothing really except it has King stabs. Once you get the throne though… nothing happens. It’s an extremely passive role (even more passive than Alchemist for crying out loud) that is IMMUNE until it gets the King spot, then you pray the evil faction doesn’t kill you. It’s boring and stupid. The main goal should be getting that throne, but there needs to be something bad that happens to everyone else if you do get it, otherwise, we just have live again where you always vote up Pret, but now they auto-win.

I feel like if you removed any other win condition, they’d be a lot more chaotic from person to person. I don’t see the problem in having Pret King just winning on the spot, similarly to Scorned/Fool/Inq/Merc and technically SS (basically, EVERY other Neutral but Alch).

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