Why do people hate Noble Meta?

I mean, it’s good confirmation for:

Knights on the king (Knight is already a hard class to prove as)
Healers so that you don’t have to confirm them with heals until very later.
Princesses who use Will-o-Whisp on king.
Nobles who confirm this.
Any investigative that get redirected to the king

This by itself is already 5 ways it can confirm people.

And if a sell sword is on the king, bam. Proven SS ingame and anyone who was on the king is probably good.

It’s easy,
it’s lazy,
it confirms too much for a single ability,
it makes people forsake deduction for mechanical confirmation.

Also WoW on King is sub-optimal


That’s a problem with the ability, not the


People dislike it partly because of those factors. Since it makes so many classes confirmable, it makes it much harder to fakeclaim as those classes in games with a noble.

Also, many people are bothered by how they see it as forcing them into a certain playstyle.


Sort of like how even with a good mystic, people disliked the Mystic meta. Yes, it worked. Just because something works doesn’t make it a meta people would prefer to exist.

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it requires no skill to confirm people and is bad for nks.

Anyone supporting the meta just likes easy baby wins with no skil.

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So basically people hate metas because it doesn’t allow for freeformed play? And more confirmation is bad? How is more confirmation bad in any way, shape, or form?

So you’re saying you would rather round-about gamethrow by not confirming people than by making the game easier?
Imagine of you were solving a math equation that was really complex. Would you rather rely on previously established mathematics that actually work or would you just go the long way around, making some mistakes because you don’t have the tools required, and all together giving up?

It’s the same way with this. Just replace the math equation with a game of ToL. Would you rather rely on previously established tactics that actually work or would you just go the hard way with it, making incorrect plays because you don’t have the confirmation required, and all together losing?

In general, using better tactics is always better than not.

No one is of the opinion that Noble Meta doesn’t work, and I’m not saying nobles shouldn’t do the meta. More confirmation isn’t bad from a perspective of wanting to win, but it can be bad from a perspective of wanting to have an enjoyable game that doesn’t rely solely on mechanical confirmation. You’re equivocating between ‘something people dislike’ and ‘something that reduces the odds of BD winning.’


Think about it this way: imagine there were a class whose night ability was ‘Win: Make BD instantly win the game.’ Obviously it would be optimal for whoever got that class to just spam that ability, but people would still say it was a bad ability that needed to be reworked.

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Yes because taking all the fun out of the game so we can get are ez wins.

Noble meta should be stopped now one should support it.

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It’s pretty simple to fix honestly make noble not able to gossip prince and reaper COD cost less or get souls for every kill.

then again if nk dies the noble can smugly do the meta.

Nothing forces you to a play certain way. There’s optimal claims and everything with CL/MM usually claiming Paladin/Sheriff but you can play any way you want. It’s OPTIMAL for Noble to gossip on King N1 and he should probably always do that but nothing FORCES them to do that.
If you’re alchemist and you dont want to be on king N1 then dont. People cant force you to do things.

So basically:
People hate metas because there’s no satisfaction with winning.

If you have to ask this question you really don’t know much about game balance.


Don’t straw man people. That’s not their argument. Their argument is that the more confirmation there is in a game, the worse the game is. And that noble confirmed too many people for it to be an ability.


I hate all claiming metas
Moving on.
But this one is effectively countered by any semicompetent reaper

Reaper can’t circle the king, though, and Gossip Meta as practiced in ToL includes a N1 gossip on the king, with all protectives targeting said king.
Reapers also rarely use Circle, due to the high soul cost.


Confirmation makes the game less interesting. Some confirmation is needed so people have something to work with without being social deduction gods, but you want to keep it to a minimum.

That’s why people don’t like Noble meta. The meta exists anyways because it is a strong meta with a lot of benefits. Fun however is not one of those benefits.

Noble being used outside of the meta requires a coordinated effort and is easily subject to tampering, the meta however automatically coordinates everyone at once and is far harder to tamper with (not impossible, just much harder).


Well do you hate Vote for role?
Or what about being upped in court?
Or being linked by Mystic?
Or being jailed by prince?

I have to say. Being upped is almost never what you want