Town of Salem has ISO Now

impossible

the more absurd the neutral claim the more likely priestess is BD

Early game Scorned Priestess? Probably BD
Late game Scorned Priestess? Probably neutral who won or evil

There’s actually ONE case where I wouldn’t be 100% against ISO
… if the following gets implemented:

The chatlog already exists, and players can (presumably) read.

This removes nothing, just improves QoL by making reading the game easier.

Debunked.

The chatlog already exists, and players can (presumably) read.

This removes nothing, just improves QoL by making reading the game easier.

Debunked.

This does not significantly affect claiming at all, and in fact if it did it would reduce massclaim pressure, as softing roles would become more viable, leading to less need to ask any given player for their role.

Debunked.

As a player, you currently have to try and “appear towny” enough to not get lynched or killed.

This literally does not change that at all. If someone thinks you’re evil enough to seriously dive into your posts alone, they’re sacrificing focus on what’s happening right now, as they always have been, to see if they think you are not towny enough. Making the game easier to read does not affect that bar.

Debunked.

By reading players’ posts?

Debunked.

By reading players’ posts?

Debunked.

ISO is not a balance change. Even if it did become “hella BD sided” by some magical increase in actual gods using ISO to trounce scum, fixing that is the point of balance changes. Failure to keep up with competitors in accessibility is always going to be worse than being a tad unbalanced, and in this case it’s about as non-reflected in balance as things get.

Debunked.

The chatlog already exists, and players can (presumably) read. Saving players a few seconds is not going to significantly impact the game.

Time management remains intact. If someone thinks you’re evil enough to seriously dive into your posts alone, they’re sacrificing focus on what’s happening right now, as they always have been, to see if they think you are not towny enough. Making the game easier to read does not significantly affect that aspect.

Even if it did, a couple tiny balance tweaks would be able to fix that. Failure to keep up with competitors in accessibility is always going to be worse than being a tad unbalanced, and in this case it’s about as non-reflected in balance as things get.

Debunked.

I’d be interested in seeing your stats that a representative majority would not want a quality-of-life feature.

Furthermore, it’s only a matter of time until people want it more vocally, given this game’s single largest competitor just added it.

Debunked pending confidence values and sample data.

Watch this

I’m sure it’s extremely difficult to implement another filter on top of the two we already have

Self-debunked

Not only does a rising tide lift all ships, but this has a significantly larger impact on someone that feels like someone might be evil, but doesn’t know why or what to do about it. Veteran players are already used to skimming the chat log and picking out the important bits, and are in fact less likely to use this feature, as their are more likely to pay attention to the context surrounding a player’s words.

Debunked.

It’s actually a bad thing that we’re behind a game that hasn’t seen a significant gameplay change in over 1000 days when it comes to accessibility and quality of life. That’s a bad look, but an easy fix.

Final Verdict:

image

7 Likes

but then what if someone names themselves arete just to cash in on that reputation, in and of themselves shredding said reputation?

I mean it does help BD a lot since they can find things faster on other players and by that saving time or find things someone wouldnt bother to look for otherwise

I agree ISO is a good tool but adding lots of rebalance just for that sounds kinda meh

The amount of time you save decreases exponentially with player experience.

Giving new players tools to make them more able to read the game will lead them to become better at BD and as non-BD and help close the gap between newer players and veterans.

And since we don’t need to balance for players who eventually learn and get better, so long as the overall balance is good, there should be no changes necessary from this.

You have to remember this is a turbo. We’re dealing with seconds, not hours. The impact is much smaller than you’re likely to think coming from a forum.

3 Likes

I think its the opposite though it saves time by like 5-15 sec which is very important in turbo

The time savings will be significantly less for players with more experience

1 Like

yes but they still will be significant

might just be me but I for example have around 300h in ToL and I am not really good at finding those stuff

I get that you’re passionate about this, but the debunked shtick is just abrasive.

I feel a bit 70/30 on this issue. 70 for implementing ISO.

It’s going to be “easy” to implement. The only hurdle I could see that might add some difficulty is the user interface and trollbox. I say that having a modicum of developer experience, but obviously no clue about ToL code.

It would affect balance, however slightly. I think ticking off like 5 seconds from the day timer can be a measure for that.

It would skew social/mechanical balance towards more social solving, which accessibility wise might not be good, because I do think ToL should stay wayyy heavy on the mechanical side with sprinkles of social deduction.

It should not become some kind of mandatory chore similar to how some people feel about ISOs on the forums or how I feel about logs in ToL :smiley: I don’t necessarily see how that goal can be reached, but I do think it’s an important thing to consider.

It might take players out of the “now” moment. Players not talking with each other, but players talking to each other if that makes sense? It’s comparable to doing an ISO on the forum, while several people are posting. You want to react to present happenings, but simultaneously get information from your ISO. This obviously happens now with players actually going back themselves manually in the chat log, but with an ISO feature, this would happen more. Simultaneously the time spend on a singular ISO would decrease with an ISO feature. So the likelihood of doing an ISO would increase, but the time spend on it would be less.

Honestly, I’d love to see the developers just try it. ToL used to have an amazing amount of experimentation, so let them try this.

3 Likes

It won’t be, it literally can’t be mandatory or a chore in turbo

Which is why it’s well worth implementing, especially given the immense benefits to new players

3 Likes

Social solving is the entire point of this genre as a whole. Emphasizing it and implementing QoL changes that make it more accessible to the average player directly enhances the core appeal of the game.

3 Likes

There is a balance there to me. We could make it mountainous and it would be completely more social solving, but that wouldn’t be more appealing. :thinking: Purely socially solving in a turbo environment is not easy to pickup and not very accessible to new players. Mechanics have to stay their heavy hand.

I acknowledge that intentionally obfuscating social solving isn’t a great idea either though.

Remember, I’m still for implementing it

3 Likes

Yeah no one is suggesting REMOVING the mechanical element of the game. Just emphasizing the existing social side of the game.

2 Likes

Nobody here is arguing it should be mountainous, nor that mechanics should have little to no impact on the game. I’m sure you know that, but it does kinds sound like you think someone does.

At the end of the day, though, the game ought to live up to its own marketing, and finding a balance is a crucial to that end.

Throne of Lies is a 3D online multiplayer game where up to 16 players use their social deduction skills in a modern take on tabletop games like Werewolf/Mafia and set during a time of medieval conflict within a fantasy realm.

The unique Day/Night cycle allows unique encounters with different strategies per phase. During the day, players discuss their findings and accuse players of treason. At night, players use their abilities to occupy, spy on, conspire against and even kill the opposing players. In a game of minority vs majority and where wit is more important than abilities, the good players will accuse and execute the guilty of treason, while the bad guys will manipulate others to turn the good guys against themselves!

While Cult and Unseen players know their allies, members of the Blue Dragon must be suspicious of every other player to ensure that they don’t fall to an evil plot. Even the King is suspect in Throne of Lies , and the enemy’s ability to convert other players to their side means that allegiances are always shifting.

The game concludes when the Blue Dragon faction has disposed of all hostile threats against the kingdom or their enemies have seized control of the Throne of Lies !

5 Likes

I know that you aren’t, I just tried to use that as an example to illustrate there is a spectrum between completely mechanical solving and socially solving and that ToL is hitting that pretty well atm, so a possible shift needs to be monitored carefully. Nothing more, nothing less. :upside_down_face:

1 Like

See the issue is I feel like it’s likely there are some people that don’t know that

So if we could be sure to not accidentally play into that belief by expressly stating we don’t hold it, I’d appreciate it a lot, truly :slight_smile: