Throne of Noone Dies

I read about this game called Keyholder (which according to reviews is apparently not fun) that is kind of like Mafia except nobody ever dies. You can google it for more details but I was wondering if a hybrid of FoL and Keyholder would be fun?

It would be something like this:

There are no killing abilities. Nobody ever dies.

Blue Dragon:

  • Wins when any Blue Dragon player identifies all other Blue Dragon players.
    • Each night, does some sort of non-killing (investigative, offensive, etc.) ability.

Unseen:

  • Wins when any Unseen player identifies the exact class of every other player.
    • Each night, learns the exact class of a single player.

Neutral Killer:

  • Wins when they identify the faction of every other player.
    • Each night, learn the faction of a single player.

Alchemist:

  • Each day, must correctly identify the faction of a single player, who is then publicly revealed.

Thoughts? I don’t know if factions should have multiple chances at guesses, or whether guess limits should be shared among their faction, or whether factions should have to vote on guesses.

But default guesses would have to be chosen and updated for in case a faction loses by an incorrect guess, to determine which of the 2 remaining factions won according to which had the most correct guesses.

The entire point is to not have player elimination, so everyone gets to play until the end and has a significant chance of affecting the outcome (there is never an “unwinnable” situation). Also, games are fairly quick, since any single player can end it at any time.

why would you play a gmae where you can’t get killed N1 due to claiming a powerful role and then claim you got SPK’d?

2 Likes

What is SPK? I googled it and it’s a Fortnite player …?

Strong Player Kill. When the wolves deliberately kill somebody with a weak role (usually VT) over an outed PR because they know that player to be a good player and don’t want their reads in the game.

2 Likes

The main problems are the fact that player elimination is only an issue in the real world, and that not being able to make angels a thing SEVERLY limits your design space. The real question is why would you go to all the effort of designing a balanced set of roles for this when there’s a chance that the NK can win on N1 or N2 (having good reads really isn’t that hard) and a regular death-filled game is just so much more rewarding.

What do you mean by angels? I have only played ToS and ToL.

Player elimination is a bigger problem in real life games but it still sucks to die online.

Not sure what you mean by NK being able to win fast, you can’t guess randomly with a real chance of winning so if you have good reads then you earned it. How is that bad? The other players can have good reads and win just as fast.

Part of what makes reading interesting is that the wovles are able to influence it; generally, games don’t end instantly if a person nails the entire team D1, because the wolves can always make out that they’re wrong and win despite them being obvious if they’re skilled enough.

In this format, if somebody figures out the wolfteam they win, flat out. The wolves can’t actually do anything about it, because it’s -EV for somebody to actually out any wolfreads they’re certain in in the setup.

I think you’re missing something I didn’t make very clear, that Blue Dragon has investigative abilities they use to help identify allies to share information with.

Angel = Doctor/Physician.

Basically, it eliminates a lot of what makes WW interesting to no sizable benefit: there’s no powerwolfing (Deepwolfing is the only possible method) for the wolves, which makes wolfing completely uninteresting, and it likewise eliminates actually having to convince your fellow villagers of anything other than your being a villager, which can be reliably counted on, especially in this site’s meta.

I can’t find out what deepwolfing means.

I think you underestimate how likely it is for the game to end very early and unsatisfactorily; the wolves can’t kill the people with the best reads or really stop them in any way beyond roleblocking them, and that makes it highly likely that say, if Alice, me, Geyde, MathBlade or Firekitten are villagers, then at least ONE OF US is going to get it right D1-2

@Shrimpy deepwolfing is the kind of wolfing where the sole aim is to get read as village.

1 Like

Deepwolfing - Make people think you are BD and aim to destroy them from within
Powerwolfing - Completely invalidate the first part and just overpower the voices of BD

1 Like

Evils can’t kill but they can roleblock, silence, trollbox, possesss, frame, etc.

I really don’t understand the math that Alice/you/Geyde/MathBlade/Firekitten being town means the game ends with BD winning D1. It seems very non-sequitur to me.

This heavily incentivizes being obvtown over trying to solve

Evils can be “obvtown” just as easily as actual town so where is the problem?

3 Likes

Anyway, the point is that 2/4 allignments would have a very good chance of winning early because reads are incredibly easy on this site, even though I hate to say something so arrogant.

However, the deathless format is not entirely broken, and I have a setup blatantly copied from MafiaScum to introduce!

3 Likes

Lol. Well if anyone is interested in hosting whatever deathless format you have in mind, please invite me I would like to play.

No because then it wouldn’t be obv town

Town Private Investigator
Town Private Investigator
Town Private Investigator
Town Private Investigator
Town Private Investigator
Town Private Investigator
Town Private Investigator
Town Private Investigator
Town Private Investigator
Town Private Investigator
Town Private Investigator
Town Private Investigator
Town Private Investigator

Mafia Escape Artist Lover
Mafia Escape Artist Lover

  • There is only one day and one night in this setup. Day is 96 hours, night is 24 hours.
  • During the day, voting happens as usual and one player is voted to be killed. If either Mafia is chosen, the Mafia lose and the villagers win. If a villager is lynched, then one Mafia can Escape, leaving the game but not dying.
  • After that, all villagers are converted into Third Party Private Investigators, who Accuse a player at night and win if they select the remaining Mafia member.
  • If a player receives 5 or more accusations, their accuasation will not count. If a player receives the most accuasations of all players at night, their accusation will not count.
  • The remaining Mafia instead Bribes a player. If any player other than that player Accuses them, they lose, otherwise they Escape and both win.
2 Likes