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Magician/Enchantress Bd/unseen offensive


#21

CW redirect is absolutely support


#22

I disagree it’s similar to debauchery.


#23

Swap doesn’t directly help either.


#24

Neither do heals. A heal disrupts the Killer’s ability, it doesn’t make your any better off compared to if nothing happened in the first place.


#25

In fact. When you really think about it this applies to ALL support ability’s


#26

Since preventing a negative effect != causing a positive effect


#27

Then Physician is offensive in your definition, the problem is support and Offensive are very similar

I feel like offensive favours more disturbing everyone and support disturbs killers/evils.


#28

Nope. I already said the distinction

Basically:

“If target player attacks someone prevent the attack” = Offensive
“If target player is attacked then prevent the attackers attack” = Support

The end result is identical. Thus replace “attacked” with something else and you get:

“If target player visits someone then occupy them” = Offensive (specifically snare trap)
“If target player is visited occupy the visitors” = Support (specifically stand guard)


#29

But how does Cw empowering a investigative prevent the attack?

Just like how swap doesn’t prevent the attackers attack and redirects them.


#30

CW empower on invest doesn’t interact with attacks. It prevents frames


#31

Support = helping others with certain abilities, heals don’t prevent the attack just save them from it.
Offensive = preventing or disturbing someone targeting a Ability.


#32

Killer/Invest empower and Frenzy are the farthest from offensive btw.

It’s not like truly support ability’s can’t exist, they are just confirmable and thus cause balance issues. The recharge ability CW had for a bit is an example of that


#33

Heals absolutely prevent the attack in every way that counts. You can argue semantics all you want but at the end of the day an attack resolves as a Kill. So if there is no dead body then the attack didn’t fully resolve. If it didn’t resolve then that means it was prevented


#34

Frenzy isn’t offensive I agree. That’s support its helping the Assassin kill


#35

Just because something uses the occupy or redirect mechanic doesn’t mean it is automatically offensive


#36

I see your point.

But redirection is offensive even Cws.

Offensive is always about preventing a action if that’s direct or indirect.

Support is about keeping your target from not being killed, or having a negative action aganist it.

Notice most support abilities prevent there faction from being harmed, like frenzy will never negatively effect the Assassin or target or Cw empower will not negatively effect the target.

Offensive will block any sort of action not determined by faction.

Maybe I’m looking into this too much but it’s more up to how someone interpritates a class type.


#37

I suppose recharge doesn’t qualify as support then


#38

most

A definition needs to hold in ALL cases


#39

Also just because a class has a Ability doesn’t make its ability fall under its class type

Look at Prince, its a social offensive killer support.

Look at Alch it’s support but can kill

Noble gossip is investigative.

So many problems with saying a class Ability falls under its class type.


#40

It does hold in all cases I disagree with SG being a mainly support ability. Same with redirect.