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Forum of Lies Blue Dragon Killer Competition


#243

yeets wazza


#244

Its basically a weakened Hunter with a kill that only works on scum and a dayvig that confirms you as BD


#245

pretty epic if you ask me :ok_hand:


#246

round 2 i have spent way too many hours on this

Pre-warnig: Cult Alts don’t factor into my final thoughts unless they’re really good. Also, if you don’t want criticism of your class, don’t look at it.

Archer by Kape

orange’s analysis:

Archer

Tracking Shot seems extremely unfun to be caught by - unlike Hunter, you can’t really bait with it, as you still die and can’t really control who visits your killer the next night. This also harshly punishes undercover killers who successfully draw healers to them. I am not a fan of this ability at all.

Decoy Trap seems significantly more protective than killer-y, and I’m not sure I want to stack half of the game’s protectives onto Killer-type roles, especially when this ability doesn’t even really kill.

Enchanted Arrow is the kind of ability I would generally like - one that plays into the other abilities of a class to give it self-synergy and a higher skill ceiling. However, I can’t see how this isn’t just a slightly-tweaked Chronomancer. It stops kills and then redirects them. However, it is lower-skill than the Chronomancer, as it autotargets those who attacked the decoy, making this an ability I thoroughly dislike.

Sharpshooter

Track Prey is a decent ability. Nothing special but also not problematic.

Swift Feet is, unless I’m forgetting something, a unique skill, which I appreciate - however, the Mastermind barely benefits from this at all, and the Assassin would be better off with an Enforcer’s Frenzy, so I question how useful it will actually be.

Exsanguinate is an interesting skill, putting risk into a stacked visit to pay off with a potential extra bleed. However, I think the Poacher already fills this “extra bleed” niche in a way that is overall stronger, so I get the impression that this ability isn’t strong enough to make the Sharpshooter a desirable convert.

Final Thoughts

Given a poor passive and no daytime abilities, the Archer needs strong (design-wise) night abilities to recover. Unfortunately, I don’t like either. It acts extremely similarly to the Chronomancer and doesn’t really bring anything new or different to the table. I don’t think it would be underpowered, but it would definitely be a pain to play against.

On almost the opposite end of the spectrum, I have no mechanical issues with the Sharpshooter, but I don’t think it does enough to make a place for itself in the game. It’s a weak convert, taking the “Jack of all trades, master of none” approach a bit too literally. An Enforcer or Poacher would both be better.

Score: 3/10

Crusader by Alice

The Crusader

Blue Dragon Killer
Providence (Day) - If any player not aligned with the Blue Dragon faction visits you this coming night, they will be prevented and bled. - 2 uses
Hand of God (Night) - Guards a target. If any player not aligned with the Blue Dragon faction visits them they will be bled by you. This does not stop their actions. - Infinite uses
Deus Vult (Night) - Attacks and kills two targets. You will also die of exhaustion the night they use this ability regardless of the ability’s outcome. - 1 use
Defeat the Unseen or Cult and any neutrals that seek to do you harm.

Converts into The Zealot or The Invoker
Cult points: 2 - Each ability costs: Varies
Cult 1 Point Alt:
(Providence) Blood Providence (Day) - If any player not aligned with the Cult visits you this coming night, they will be prevented and bled the next day. - 2 uses
(Hand of God) Hand of Mithras (Night) - Guards a target. If any player not aligned with the Cult visits them they will be bled. This does not stop their actions. - Infinite uses
Cult 2 Point Alt:
(Deus Vult): Incarnation of Mithras (Night) - Allows the Cult Leader to kill an additional target if you are sacrificed. - 1 uses

The Zealot

Unseen Killer
Piety (Day) - The Zealot will be shown as a member of the Blue Dragon to faction checks if investigated the coming night. - 3 uses
Martyrdom (Day) - If a player is executed this day, the Zealot can choose to sacrifice themselves in order to stop the execution and save the accused played while also bleeding their first accuser. - 1 use
Malleus Maleficarum (Night) - Bleeds any player that attempts to visit your target tonight. - 3 uses
Regicide (Night) - Attacks and kills the King while bypassing all forms of healing and immunities. Regicide will also kill the Zealot the same night. - 1 use
Defeat the Blue Dragon and any neutrals that seek to do you harm.

orange’s analysis:

Crusader

Providence is another bait skill. We already have Hunter. Please no more bait skills. Especially when both are autotargeting.

Hand of God is weird because it’s weaker than a Knight guard in every way except it can also target the Mastermind or an Unseen convert. Whether this is a good trade-off for the delay and inability to actually protect is up for debate. In general, however, I dislike skills that automatically target opposing players only, and that holds true here. A bleed-based Veteran could be interesting - one with no drawbacks is significantly less so.

Deus Vult is a nice enough suicide-bomber-like ability that I don’t have any significant problem with. Added firepower for significantly reduced carry potential over a Knight or similar. I do think it’ll suck to see a double teamkill though.

Zealot

Piety seems a bit too selfish for my liking - I’m not the biggest fan of tailors, and being able to essentially be tailored the entire time you are the Zealot is questionable. Wide-ranging, stronger abilities with less uses (such as Dark Dimension [which should really be one use btw]) generally lead to more tactical gameplay than self-targeting ones.

Martyrdom is so situational I question why it even exists? It really only works in MyLo, and if you’re in that situation I’m not sure I want the Zealot to be able to clutch it out even if the vote is correct and would lead the BD much closer to victory. Definitely not a fan.

Malleus Maleficarum is extremely strong at three uses. I’d almost argue that it should be one use, given the fact that the class is basically immune to investigations. If Piety is nerfed, I’d be okay with this being two uses. Can lead to significantly more Unseen kills and is extremely effective at drawing healers off of high-priority targets. Definitely too good as-is.

Regicide is the Servant’s Chaotic Wine, but way weaker. However, given the strength of Malleus Maleficarum, I can see why it is so much weaker, and as such would not look into buffing it.

Cult Alts

Blood Providence is the easiest way to out yourself. And a bait skill on scum, which I really dislike.

Hand of Mithras sounds really painful to deal with, as you can just go for the obvious guard/investigate targets and net free bleeds, then drawing healers off of other targets. This is worth taking Blood Providence for, because the extra bleeds are way better than the extra kill from Incarnation of Mithras.

Incarnation of Mithras is fine - it’s good, but probably not too good. Then again, I don’t really think about the Cult, so maybe I’m wrong.

Final Thoughts

I’m not a fan of the Crusader. Too many skills that autotarget scum-only, making it a really safe BD Killer for anyone who doesn’t decide to suicide bomb. It’s not focused enough on the suicide aspect to make it stand out there either though.

The Zealot is extremely powerful. Bleeds for days, and immune to investigations the entire time it exists (it’s either Assassin by N4 or has suicided on a Good King most of the time). Also not really a fan here.

Score: 3/10

Duelist by Alice

The Duelist

Blue Dragon Killer
Royal Blood (Passive) - Your votes for King will count twice.
Schuld (Passive) - If you have killed any Blue Dragon-aligned players in the match, then you will not be allowed to receive votes to become the King.
Versetzen (Day) - Grants night immunity for the coming night. If any attack is blocked then you will gain a use of Zornhau. - 2 uses
Mittelhau (Night) - Redirects the selected player’s action to you while also granting yourself immunity to all redirected attacks and conversions, then attack the player. If you successfully kill a player then you will gain a use of Zornhau. Disables the your night abilities if the target is aligned with the Blue Dragon. - Infinite uses
Zornhau (Night) - Prevents you from being occupied or redirected, then attacks the your target and kills them, bypassing healing and night immunity. Disables your night abilities if the target is aligned with the Blue Dragon. - 0 uses
Defeat the Unseen or Cult and any neutrals that seek to do you harm.

Converts into The Baronet or The Invoker
Cult points: 2 - Each ability costs: Varies
Cult 1 Point Alt:
Royal Blood (Passive)
(Schuld): Grausamkeit (Passive) - If you become a Devout King, then Dark Gods’ Crown can be used twice per corpse.
(Versetzen): Opfern (Day) - Grants night immunity to you for the coming night. If any attack is blocked then the Cult Leader’s next Blood of Mithras will be free of charge. - 2 uses
(Mittelhau): Vergeltung (Night) - Redirects the player onto you. If they attack you then you will counterattack and kill them. - Infinite uses
Cult 2 Point Alt:
(Zornhau): Königsmord (Night) - Kills the King, bypassing everything. If the you kill a Devout King, then you will commit suicide. - 1 uses

The Baronet

Unseen Killer
Royal Blood (Passive) - Your votes for King will count twice.
Gerissen (Passive) - If you become the King, then you will gain one use of Scheme despite not being the starting King.
Vom Tach (Night) - Deflects any incoming attack against all members of the Unseen and kills the attacker. - Three uses
Missgunst (Night) - Removes Royal Blood from a target for the remainder of the game. - 1 use
Defeat the Blue Dragon and any neutrals that seek to do you harm.

orange’s analysis:

Duelist

Royal Blood is something I do think should be on at least one non-unique Killer class, but I’d honestly put it on a Support class first. If the rest of the class makes use of it, however, I think RB on a Killer has potential.

Schuld is a good sign - seeing another ability play along with Royal Blood is reassuring. However, this should really be that votes for you don’t count - being unable to be voted at all confirms you. Additionally, it doesn’t really mesh enough with Royal Blood in my opinion, and means that, if you accidentially kill a BD player, you are literally just a Citizen now. Better than suicide, maybe, but still not very rewarding, and will likely promote much more passive gameplay.

Versetzen obviously pairs with Zornhau, so I’ll look at this combo there. However, I still dislike bait abilities, and this is the third one thus far. That’s not a good sign for the rest.

Mittelhau is a Final Girl, so obviously this is now a Final Girl. The class name probably should have clued me in. The addition of a kill on the target is interesting, but I can’t tell if your inability to kill a roleblocker is intended or not, but does mean that you can test roleblocker claims basically for free. However, I’m more concerned that a kill skill gives you a use of Zornhau, another kill skill. That seems weird.

Zornhau works with both Versetzen and Mittelhau, which I like - however, as noted above, killing somebody to gain a kill is a bit of a weird way to approach the Final Girl archetype. This leaves you using no night actions for most of the game, and greatly reduces the usual prediction-heavy aspects of such classes. Plus, baiting people to you to get a revenge kill is arguably what the Hunter should be changed to, in order to remove its autotargeting aspect. I wouldn’t want a new class to take that instead.

Baronet

Royal Blood was discussed above. I think it makes more sense here than on Duelist though, as the other abilities focus on it much more heavily.

Gerissen is clearly outdated - Scheme no longer exists, and giving them a use of Cast Shadow would be way too powerful. This probably needs to be replaced with something else.

Vom Tach sounds like a skill I very much do not want to play against. It’s a button you can push to instantly kill anybody who is scumreading any Unseen member enough to go for a kill on them. Not just block the killer - kill the killer. That sounds awful to play against on every level. I’d rework this entirely.

Missgunst is a good skill, but without a replacement for Vom Tach is obviously not strong enough on its own to carry the Baronet. If Vom Tach was replaced with something that played into this class having Royal Blood, I could see this skill being situationally useful.

Cult Alts

Grausamkeit is a great ability. No complaint, except maybe it should be 2 points? Again, I don’t pretend to know how to balance the Cult.

Opfern is another bait-type ability. Yay. And it’s on scum. Yay-er. Definitely not a fan.

Vergeltung is at least prediction-based, but like, why does scum need the ability to prevent kills on them by killing the killer? It’s not even a trade, it’s just snapshotting the poor Knight or whatever. I’d definitely change this too.

Königsmord is now a different Chaotic Wine instead of a weaker one, trading day activation for the ability to bypass heals. I don’t know how many converts I want to be able to just gib the King, so I’d probably change this too. Not awful though?

Final Thoughts

Duelist is an awkward twist on the Final Girl archetype that fails to capitalize on what makes that archetype great (funnily enough, falling in line with the actual Final Girl in that fastion). It doesn’t make good use of its Royal Blood, and ends up being a bit of a one-trick pony.

The Baronet is definitely better, but the night abilities waste the promise the day abilities brought to the table, and even Gerissen is entirely outdated.

Score: 3/10

Thaumaturge by Sarun

The Thaumaturge

Blue Dragon Killer
Thaumaturgic Focus (Passive) - You are immune to being occupied at night and immune to target changing.
Sigil of Thunder (Night) - Sets a Sigil of Thunder on your target, causing them to explode and kill the player before they are converted while also putting the conversion on cooldown. You are notified if the Sigil explodes and recasting this spell will change which player has the Sigil. The Sigil will not activate if the conversion happens the same night it is placed. - Infinite uses
Sigil of Fire (Night) - Sets a Sigil of Fire on your target, causing them to explode and kill any player that attacks the target, but does not prevent any actions against them. You are notified if the Sigil explodes and recasting this spell will change which player has the Sigil. The Sigil will not activate if the attack happens the same night it is placed. - Infinite uses
Defeat the Unseen or Cult and any neutrals that seek to do you harm.

Converts into The Arcanist or The Invoker
Cult points: 2 - Each ability costs: 1
Cult Alt:
(Sigil of Thunder): Thunderbolt of Corax (Night) - If the Cult’s conversion is off cooldown then you can put it on cooldown to enact an additional kill that is guaranteed to succeed. - Infinite uses
(Sigil of Fire): Inferno of Mithras (Night) - You will kill yourself and anyone visiting you. - One use

The Arcanist

Unseen Social
Arcane Focus (Passive) - You are immune to being occupied at night and immune to target changing.
Sigil of Illusion (Night) - Choose a class and sets a Sigil on another Unseen player and they will show up as the chosen class to any Investigative roles that visits them. The Sigil is destroyed once the target is visited by an Investigative, requiring them to be recast. - Infinite uses
Sigil of Madness (Night) - Puts a Sigil of Madness on a player, permanently giving them a Mind Warp effect until you die. - 1 use
Defeat the Blue Dragon and any neutrals that seek to do you harm.

orange’s analysis:

Thaumaturge

Thaumaturgic Focus is very strong on a Killer - I’m interested to see how the class works with that freedom to act.

I cannot tell if Sigil of Thunder kills the player that would be converted, or kills the player attempting to convert. If the former, interesting skill! If the latter, a massive pain in the ass for the scum, and one I would drop immediately.

Sigil of Fire, on the other hand, is too similar to Knight’s guard for my taste. It’s just a Scout-deployed guard that doesn’t actually save a life. Not bad, nor something I’d dock points for, but not what I want out of the second non-unique BD Killer.

Arcanist

Arcane Focus is the same as Thaumaturgic Focus, but is definitely stronger on Unseen than BD.

Sigil of Illusion is an interesting buff to the tailoring role this class takes. Personally, given Arcane Focus, I’d make it so that the sigil is not set-and-forget. It doesn’t need that.

Sigil of Madness is really realy strong, assuming it does what I think it does (this is also out of date, as Mind Warp is now gone). Definitely make the above nerf to Sigil of Illusion if this acts like Construct Reality does.

Cult Alts

Thunderbolt of Corax is a great skill. Sacrificing a conversion for a kill is a net loss most of the time, but I can think of several circumstances where that would be useful. If it needs to be buffed, just extend the cooldown by one day (prevent conversion on the same night as this skill is used if it is charged and the night after if it isn’t), rather than requiring it to not be on cooldown before it can be used. Again, that’s only if this needs a buff later.

Inferno of Mithras is another bait skill. I’m more okay with the suicide bomb aspect (especially because you need to net three kills to make this stronger than a normal sacrifice), so I guess I don’t hate it, but what is the focus on bait skills here???

Final Thoughts

The Thaumaturge isn’t bad, but I need some clarification on how Sigil of Thunder works (I’m assuming it kills the player that would be converted from here on out in my analysis). Additionally, I’d prefer Sigil of Fire be replaced with something less similar to Knight’s guard, especially as it will be the only other non-unique BD Killer if it is adopted now.

The Arcanist is a class I want to really like, but can’t, because a class focused mostly on tailoring is not something I really want. However, I think it could be fine with only a slight change to Sigil of Illusion, and would not be opposed to its introdution. Also, it’s Support, not Social.

Score: 6/10

Warrior by Han Solo

The Warrior

Blue Dragon Killer
Combat Ready (Passive) - If you are attacked during the first two nights, you will be immune and will counterattack instead of dying.
Bloodlust (Passive) - For every successful kill, you will gain an additional night of Combat Ready.
Raging Axes (Night) - Attacks and kills a player. If the target was Blue Dragon-aligned, then you will lose your night abilities and you will be shown as Unseen or Cult to faction checks. - Infinite uses
Taunt (Night) - Redirects the target’s night action to the yourself. Redirects past the second night will trigger Combat Ready. - One use
Defeat the Unseen or Cult and any neutrals that seek to do you harm.

Converts into The Marauder or The Invoker
Cult points: 2 - Each ability costs: 1
Cult Alt:
(Bloodlust): Blood for Blood (Passive) - If you are sacrificed for Blood of Mithras, then the kill will bypass all forms of protection.
(Raging Axes): Anstreim’s Paranoia (Night) - All Killer-type classes will be show as members of this Cult for this night. - One use

The Marauder

Unseen Offensive
Massacre (Passive) - You are immune to occupation, death at night, and will counterattack against attackers. This passive is lost once you are promoted to an Assassin.
Aura of Dread (Day) - All non-Killer roles will be prevented from visiting the Marauder this coming night. - One use
Boast (Night) - Redirects the target player to yourself - Infinite uses
Glare (Night) - Occupies a player for the night. If your target is successfully occupied and is also attacked the same night then they cannot be healed and their night immunity will be bypassed. - One use
Defeat the Blue Dragon and any neutrals that seek to do you harm.

orange’s analysis:

Warrior

Combat Ready is a skill I’m not a fan of whatsoever. It’s like the oft-disparaged “first-night immunity” but also can just straight end a NK with no effort at all.

Bloodlust builds on Combat Ready. Combat Ready takes no skill. Guess how I feel about this?

Raging Axes provides an interesting frame punishment, and is otherwise a standard kill. The only ability here I like.

Taunt is different from the Duelist… how? Also it just plays into Combat Ready. Again, not at all a fan.

Marauder

Massacre is straight stupid. Why do we need so many immunities and the ability to kill those who kill you? Why do you think this mechanic is fun enough to put it on so many classes??? I don’t get it at all.

Aura of Dread is cool in that it helps proc Massacre in an interesting way. I could see a variation of this being cool somewhere else, but not here and not with Massacre.

Boast is, again, the Duelist. Which is interesting, given a converted Duelist was not a Duelist. However, it is also literally an Alcoholic. Why do we need another Alcoholic?

Glare is really strong, and could probably carry this role on itself. A roleblock/heal prevention combo is pretty strong. One use limits it enough, so all in all, it’s the only skill here I like.

Cult Alts

Blood for Blood is fine.

Anstreim’s Paranoia is kinda self-defeating (see final thoughts on Marauder below).

Final Thoughts

The Warrior is awful. It just instakills anything that attacks it early on, which is hardly different from RNG and leads into, you guessed it, more baiting. Sure, there’s some prediction with Taunt, but then it just ends up being omniscent anyways.

The Marauder is not any better. Massacre is just excessive, but the entire class also loses almost all funcitonality if there are no remaining Killers. Which is not that unlikely, especially because, in order to have a Marauder, the BD are already down one Killer, making this class significantly less likely to have any real impact.

Either way, rip NK.

Score: 2/10

Warrior by Soulshade55r

The Warrior Blue Dragon Killer
Trained (Passive) - Will not kill if there is more than one visitor using Tarnish
Silent Impact (Day) - make someone bleed and die the next night not knowing, cannot use until D3 - 1 Use.
Rusted Armour (Day) - Be Immune to attacks tonight - 1 Use.
Backstab (Night) - force a player to target you if they are attacking killing them, you won’t be immune to attacks unless you used RA - 3 Uses.
Tarnish (Night) - Protect someone killing a visitor - 2 Uses.

The Crusader Unseen Killer
Light Armour (Day) - Make yourself Immune to death at night also appearing as Blue Dragon - 1 Use.
Second plot (Night) - if the Assassins Kill fails or is jailed/Occupied you’ll carry out the kill on a new target of your choice - Infinite
Dark Rage (Night) - If assassins target fails to be killed you’ll bleed them unknowingly they will die the next night - 1 Use.

Cult alts.
Rusted armour - 1 Use. 1 pt.
Cult Rage, if CLs convert fails you’ll bleed the target Unknowingly making them die next night - 1 Use. 1 pt.
Second plot - if CL is jailed, occupied or fails night action you may carry out a kill on someone - 2 Uses 2pt.

orange’s analysis:

Warrior

I’m not actually sure what Trained does - it reads like you won’t kill if two or more others are using Tarnish. However, that is impossible, as there is a maximum of two Warriors per game.

Silent Impact is fine, and I like the lack of any punishment if you’re wrong here.

Rusted Armour is fine too.

Backstab is a familiar skill. I like that you also die, unlike some classes above, and therefore pairs well with Rusted Armor to lean into action prediction. It is also definitively not the same as Alcoholic. Best self-redirect suggestion yet.

Tarnish, if it works as I’m reading it (see Town of Salem’s Crusader), is entirely reliant on RNG, and straight-up needs to be replaced. I may be misreading it though?

Crusader

Light Armor is selfish, but not egregious.

Second Plot is great. I use the same exact mechanic on my own submission. The complete lack of a Mafioso-type mechanic in this game thus far is extremely puzzling.

Dark Rage, however, just seems like a less useful Second Plot most of the time. I’m assuming this is meant to bypass whatever is blocking the Assassin’s kill, but it’s only ever useful if the thing preventing the kill from failing was either something preventing visits on the Assassin’s target or a Knight. Either way, I’d argue that Second Plot is better in almost every circumstance.

Cult Alts

Rusted Armor is fine, as long as it doesn’t protect you from being sacrificed for free.

Cult Rage is an interesting way to go for an extra bleed.

Second Plot is strong, especially at two uses, but how does it blend with sacrifice? What if the Cult Leader is attempting to sacrifice the converted Warrior?

Final Thoughts

The Warrior needs to lose Tarnish (unless I’m wrong on how it works), but otherwise is probably okay. Just giving it a one-shot, guilt-free, generic kill instead probably makes it good enough as a kill-focused Final Girl-type class.

The Crusader is nice for its tactical kill skill, but probably needs more work on its other abilities to be more than just a slighly better Mafioso.

Score: 7/10

Duelist by NuclearBurrito

The Duelist

Blue Dragon Killer
Competitive (Passive) - Occupy and Redirect immune
Last stand (Passive) - If you are the last Blue Dragon alive then Strike bypasses death immunity
Parry (Night) - If Target player visits you then remove their immunity’s and redirect them to themselves - Infinite uses
Strike (Night) - Occupy and kill target player - 3 uses
Defeat the Unseen or Cult and any neutrals that seek to do you harm.

2 cult points. Each ability costs 1

Retaliation - Each time after a cultist dies to something besides Blood of Mithras, the next Blood of Mithras will not kill the cultist selected. Does not stack.

Expose - Chose a player and a class. If the target is that class then kill them bypassing healing and death immunity. (2 uses)

The Gladiator

Unseen Offensive
Competitive (Passive) - Occupy and Redirect immune
Berserk (Passive) - If the Mastermind is dead then Stagger has unlimited uses and Occupies the target.
En guard (Day) - You will redirect anyone visiting the Unseen to your target bypassing Occupy immunity tonight. - 2 uses
Counter (Night) - If Target player visits you then remove their immunity’s for 2 nights (including this one) and redirect them to themselves. - Infinite uses
Stagger (Night) - Disable target players passives for 2 nights (including this night). They won’t be informed - 2 uses
Defeat the Blue Dragon and any neutrals that seek to do you harm.

orange’s analysis:

Duelist

Competitive has the potential to be quite strong, especially on the converted Gladiator.

Last Stand gives it clutch potential. I’m not a fan of clutch abilities, but putting one on another Killer is less bad then putting one on a non-Killer, given Hunter exists.

Parry is kinda like a bait skill, but doesn’t do anything without prediction and only forces a self-redirect on another player, so it’s better than a true bait kill.

Strike is a guiltless kill, and it has three. That’s really strong, especially compared to most of the other suggestions. If you ask me, Strike should start with two uses, using Strike on a BD should drop its remaining uses to zero, but successfully Parrying somebody should give you an extra use of Strike if you have less than two uses left. Is this similar to my Gladiator version of this class? Yes. But I think making abilities interact with each other is generally better than not.

Gladiator

Competitive is stronger on Unseen than on BD.

Berserk is again a clutch ability. I, again, am not a huge fan of these. But it’s not inherently awful to have.

En Guard is cool, although it’s really strong as a two-use day ability. Also, things don’t really bypass occupy/redirect immunity any more, so I’d be sure to drop that here (it really doesn’t need it to be great).

Counter is a super unique skill that I like a lot. It allows you to pierce immunity of anybody you can get to target you the night before. A unique twist on this apparently common formula.

Stagger is a unique and interesting skill that I don’t like on this class. It’s already pretty darn strong, and I’d rather give passive disabling to somebody else later.

Cult Alts

Last Stand is incredibly strong. It effectively negates the Cult’s main weakness as long as the converted Duelist is alive. This is probably too strong, and you should certainly not be able to pick it and another ability.

Expose is also really strong. Why are these both available at the same time? Am I suddenly undervaluing every single class in the game? Because all three of these seem really strong, but especially the Cult convert.

Final Thoughts

Duelist is a unique variant of the Final Girl archetype that functions quite differently.

Gladiator is pretty much the same.

Both are extremely strong, and although I like both, I have a problem - I’d rather see these types of classes added as a new Offensive, with a focus on predicting and redirecting things to build up strength, as opposed to a Killer class like they are here. This shouldn’t surprise you, given I already made my own version of these that is just that. Still, I like these well enough and would be okay with seeing their inclusion, even if I would be sad they can’t be a self-interacting Offensive class instead.

Score: 8/10

Archer by SweetyCake

Archer

Blue Dragon Killer

Bag Of Arrows (Passive) - You start with 2 arrows, and cost them to use abilities.

Make Arrow (Day) - Receive an arrow at the end of tonight. You will not receive any arrow from this ability if Loyal Guard is used tonight, regardless if you killed anyone or not. [Infinite Use]
Sleepiness Night (Day) - Become occupy and redirect immune tonight. [2 Use]

Steady Aim (Night) - Target a player, if they attack someone then you will attack them. Receive 1 arrow on succeed kill. [1-Arrow Cost]
Loyal Guard (Night) - If you are attacked tonight, occupy the attacker and attack them. Receive 2 arrows if no attacker are detected. [2-Arrows Cost]

Your objective is to defeat the Unseen or Cult and any neutrals that seek to do you harm.
Converts into TrapShooter or The Acolyte

Cult Point : 2 | Each ability cost 1 point.

Cult Alts
Blood Arrow (Passive) - If your Cult Leader being attacked tonight, you will occupy and attack the attacker. Only take effect once.

Blood Pressure (Day) - Test a player to see if they are healer or not. Receive result at the end of the night. [2 Use]

Cult Eyes (Night) - Follow a player, if they target your Cult ’s member, occupy and attack them. [3 Use]
Mithras Will’s (Night) - Attack unhealablely a player without Cult Leader command, will suidice if the attack did not kill them. Receive back the use and not attack if you are occupied or redirected. [1 Use]

TrapShooter

Unseen Offensive

Cup Of Coffee (Day) - Giving the Unseen hidden occupy and redirect immunity while giving you normal immunity for tonight. [2 Use]

Arrow Trap (Night) - Occupy a player, if they are occupy immune, you receive another use of Armor Piercing . [4 Use]
Armor Piercing (Night) - Make Assassin ’s attack tonight being unhealable. Anyone who visited the Assassin ’s target will be occupied. [1 Use]

orange’s analysis:

Archer

Bag of Arrows obviously works with other abilities. However, I think we end up giving this class too many arrows. I think the main fix for that comes later, but it should also only start with one and have a cap of probably four.

Make Arrow is nice, because you can’t just keep guarding yourself if you want to get more arrows.

Sleepiness Night (Sleepless?) is a unique way to build some amount of reading into what is normally a passive ability. I like it.

Steady Aim is almost good. I like that it’s free if you successfully predict a kill. However, I dislike how it only allows the class to kill other killers. This leads into the last ability.

Loyal Guard is the ability that I think could make this class really shine if it was completely reworked. Why does this class need two skills that can only kill killers? Instead, this should be replaced with something else, that also costs two arrows. Maybe a straight kill, maybe a multikill that’s more expensive. Up to you. Either way, though, this skill should not give you arrows back, ever. Make the play build into it and commit. Starting with two arrows and getting them back if you guard incorrectly is not the way to go, not at all.

TrapShooter

Cup of Coffee is a weirdly-named ability on a weirdly-named class. It is basically necessary for this class to work as-is, but I wouldn’t mind dropping it or replacing it or editing it.

Arrow Trap is odd - it encourages occupying occupy immune players, which sure, wastes your time, but it also wastes your time. I’m not sure how to feel about it, but I’m leaning towards disliking it.

Armor Piercing is, as written, not good. It should probably just pierce immunity and guards alongside healing, but not occupy visitors to the kill target.

Cult Alts

Blood Arrow - Too specific, not a fan.

Blood Pressure - Oddly specific Investigative ability. Not bad but not really fitting in my opinion.

Cult Eyes - The extra attacks are definitely too strong. Needs less kill power.

Mithras’s Will - Suicide if the attack doesn’t kill them, regain it if it does? That’s backwards, and way too strong. It’s a base +1 KPN until you get prevented.

Final Thoughts

I think the Archer is really nice, as long as Loyal Guard is replaced with an ability like I described above. 7/10

The Trapshooter is just weird and odd, and could definitely afford to take notes from other suggestions here. 4/10

The Cult Alts all need work. 2/10

Score: 5/10

Watch by Unknown

The Watch

Blue Dragon Killer
Careful Planning (Day) - If you get redirected tonight, you will not attack. - 2 uses
Reckless Preparations (Day) - Your attacks at night cannot be stopped or healed. They can be redirected. - 1 use
No Access (Night) - If your second target targets your first target, attack your second target. - Infinite uses
Counter-attack (Night) - If your target attacks you you will prevent their attack and counter-attack them. Counter-attacks ignore guards(but neither innate immunity nor healing) - 2 uses
Defeat the Unseen or Cult and any neutrals that seek to do you harm.

The Accomplice

Unseen Killer
Murder Plans (Day) - The Assassin will be unaffected by guards tonight, and cannot be seen. - 1 use
Keep Off (Night) - If your second target targets your first target, who must be a member of the Unseen, attack your second target. - Infinite uses
Defeat the Blue Dragon and any neutrals that seek to do you harm.

2 Cult Points, each ability costs 1.
Cult Alts:
Counter-Attack (Night) -> Shielding Conversion(Night) - If the Cult Leader attempts to convert a person tonight they and their target will be protected from attacks and Occupy. - 1 use
No Access (Night) -> No Access (Night) - If your second target targets your first target, attack your second target. - 1 use

orange’s analysis:

Watch

Careful Planning is an interesting skill, but I question how often it’ll actually be used. After all, how often can a BD member actually predict when an attack they’re making is going to be redirected to a place they don’t want to go? Especially when that class can’t actually control their own attack in the first place?

Reckless Preparations, on the other hand, is just added pierce. That’s fine I guess, but considering you don’t have any straight attacks, I question how useful this actually is.

No Access is another twist on the Final Girl idea. I worry, however, this may prove to be too difficult to pull off, especially with only two uses. At least it isn’t only able to hit attackers?

Counter-Attack is, drumroll please… another bait skill! Why does anybody want this? Why does anybody want more of this? How is this different from Hunter? The world may never know.

Accomplice

Murder Plans has the same issue as things that only bypass healing. Either make something that bypasses both or drop it, and balance from there. Trying to take the 50/50 on which type of guard will be on your target is not good gameplay.

Keep Off is some weird mishmash, and I can’t tell if this will actually lead to baiting or not. But I suspect it will, and either way am not a fan of this activation method at all.

Final Thoughts

Watch is some weird combination of useless and low-skill baiting.

Accomplice is some weird combination of useless and low-skill baiting.

Score: 2/10

Lancer by cupcakeaj2

The Lancer

Blue Dragon Killer
Outmatched (Passive) - You are immune to attacks from marked targets and will attack them if you’re attacked by them.
Knock Off (Day) - Prevent a player from using day abilities for the rest of the day. They will only be able to use their first night ability the following night. - 2 Uses
Pointed Lance (Night) - Target a player and mark all of their visitors. Players will know when they’re marked. If a marked player does nothing at night, their mark will be removed. If a currently marked player gets marked again, they’ll be attacked. - Infinite Uses
Armor Break (Night) - Remove a player’s first passive for tonight and the next night. 3 Uses

Converts into The Horseman or The Acolyte
Cult Points: 2 - Each ability costs: 1
Cult Alt:
(Outmatched): Overwhelm (Passive) - Any player you visit will lose their occupy and redirection immunity until you die.
(Pointed Lance): Madness (Night) - If the Cult Leader failed to convert their target tonight, you will kill them no matter what. 2 Uses.

The Horseman

Unseen Offensive
Trample (Day) - Trample a player, changing all of their infinite use abilities to 3 uses left.
Selfless Oath (Night) - You will die in the place of any Unseen who dies tonight and tomorrow. 2 Uses
Phantom Steed (Night) - The Assassin will not appear to visit anyone tonight and cannot be killed by a Knight or Hunter bear tonight.

orange’s analysis:

Lancer

Outmatched is immediately way better than any of the previous skills that just autokill attackers. Forcing you to mark people in order to gain this power against them actually rewards scumreading and scum staying undetected. If only you could actually choose who to mark, this skill would be perfect.

Knock Off is stupid strong. 65 base power with the ability to increase to almost 100 and remove an enemy’s item simultaneously is just ridiculous. I would not be at all surprised to see this get nerfed. As for the Lancer’s ability, I like day ability prevention, but I do think it will be problematic to restrict people to their first night ability. It has literally no effect on classes without multiple night abilities, and I’m not sure how many past classes have their abilities in the right order for this to exist. Additionally, this affects how every new class suggestion has to be set up. I’d drop that part and just prevent day abilities.

Pointed Lance is an interesting way to bring deathmarks into the game, but I’m not sure I want a killer that can only kill players that visit its target multiple times. This feels weak. It’s also super confirmable.

Armor Break should, for the same reasons as my change to Knock Off, just nullify all passives, not just the first.

Horseman

Trample is really strong on an early-game convert, however it does definitely lose power as a late-game convert (which is probably fine). Is it one use?

Selfless Oath is actually super weak imo - it tells whoever was trying to kill the other Unseen members that they were correct, and nets you in the process. This is only a positive in oddball scenarios, and the Horseman would be much better served by an ability to place fake marks.

Phantom Steed should also bypass healing, especially because the chances of hitting a Knight or Hunter are significantly lowered if you have already converted a BD Killer. As such, just make it a ninja that also bypasses heals, but let immunity keep blocking the kill to seperate it from Enforcer.

Cult Alts

Overwhelm is quite good if paired with an Invoker. Possibly too good, if it wasn’t for the fact that Acolyte can only visit one player per game. Not sure if that was intentional or not.

Madness is a Mafioso for the Cult, but replacing a conversion attempt with a kill. That’s probably fine, but I think actually making use of this would be pretty rare, and it might be better served by an ability to fake marks.

Final Thoughts

The Lancer is a unique deathmarking class that isn’t bad, but suffers from weak type coverage, low attack stats, and an inability to control its marks. It’s an idea I like, but still has large deficiencies in its execution.

The Horseman ends up falling back on its two one-shot abilities, and as such is overreliant on getting a trample off on a healer or investigative class in the early game. It also can no longer mark, so it’s probably just dead.

Score: 6/10

Firebrand by WazzaAzza

The Firebrand

Blue Dragon Killer
Cuts and Scars (Passive) - You are immune to bleeding.
Fire Thrower (Day) - Set a player on fire, they will die at the end of tonight. - 1 use.
Deathmark (Night) - Deathmark a player. - 3 uses.
Final Burn Out (Night) - Kill all deathmarked players. - 1 use.
Your objective is to defeat the Unseen or Cult and any Neutrals that seek to do you harm.

Converts into The Firebreather or The Acolyte
Cult Points: 2 - Each ability costs 1
(Fire Thrower) Mithras Burn (Day) - Set a player on fire, they will die at the end of the night.- 1 use.
Two Cult Point Alt Ability:
(Deathmark + Final Burn Out) Mithras’ Targets - Deathmark a player and kill all current death marked players. - 1 use.

The Firebreather

Unseen Killer
Cuts and Scars (Passive) - You are immune to bleeding.
Feet of Fire (Day) - If target player attempts to use an action today, they will be prevented from doing so. - 2 uses.
Fire Thrower (Day) - Set a player on fire, they will die at the end of tonight. - 1 use.
Marksman (Night) - Deathmark a player. - 3 uses.
Final Burn Out (Night) - Kill all deathmarked players. - 1 use.
Your objective is to defeat the Blue Dragon and any neutrals that seek to do you harm.

Should note some things about the class:

  • The Unseen version shares their use abilities with their BD counterpart apart from Fire Thrower .
  • Final Burn Out and it’s counterparts bypass night immunity and can only be stopped by healing.

The Firebreather

Unseen Support
Cuts and Scars (Passive) - You are immune to bleeding.
Arsonist Flames (Passive) - Once you become the Assassin, you will gain one extra use of Rupture.
Feet of Fire (Day) - If target player attempts to use an action today, they will be prevented from doing so. - 2 uses.
Marksman (Night) - Deathmark a player, if the Assassin attacks them it will bypass night immunity. - 3 uses.
Flame Gas (Night) - Prevent all investigative abilities to all Unseen players tonight. - 1 use.
Your objective is to defeat the Blue Dragon and any neutrals that seek to do you harm.

orange’s analysis:

Firebrand

Cuts and Scars is probably not necessary, but also not bad. Meh.

Feet of Fire is cool. We don’t have enough day ability-affecting abilities, or at least we haven’t in like a year and a half.

Fire Thrower is basically a reskinned, buffed bleed. Not good, not bad.

Deathmark and Final Burn Out are a pair, so I’ll discuss them together. As long as we have an Arsonist-type class, I think this is a decent way of doing it. However, I wouldn’t limit Deathmark. The risk-reward dynamic is already really strong, no need to limit the risk and the reward arbitrarily. Plus, if your marks die before you can ignite, you can’t do anything else for the rest of the game.

Killer Firebreather

Cuts and Scars is probably almost entirely pointless. How many things are going to bleed you? (One.) Plus, even if a Hunter does bleed you, you deserve it. I’d ditch this.

Feet of Fire is still cool. Or hot, I guess.

Fire Thrower is just a free kill. That’s pretty darn powerful.

Marksman and Final Burn Out on a Killer are stupid broken. I would replace these with a passive that when you become Assassin you gain Marksman and Final Burn Out instead of Assassinate and 2-for-1. That would be neat.

Support Firebreather

Cuts and Scars should still go.

Arsonist Flames is almost what I suggested above, but it’s not. Extra bleed is alright though.

Feet of Fire is, well, you know the drill.

Marksman is super weak. How many BD are death immune? At best you hit the NK.

Flame Gas is also kinda weak, insofar as they can just check you again tomorrow, and it may be suspected that you’ve been converted should this occur. Wasting a day of investigations is great, don’t get me wrong, but this is traceable while it does it, and that could prove problematic.

Cult Alts

Mithras Burn is, again, quite strong, especially given Acolyte’s Spirit of Mithras.

Mithras’ Targets, however, is way too strong if the Firebrand was a bad reader, and extremely weak if they were a good reader or just didn’t act. I’d ditch this combo.

Final Thoughts

The Firebrand isn’t half bad, and could work just find with only a tweak here or there.

I prefer the Support Firebrand as-is, but that’s because it’s a choice between weak and insanely powerful. Both need changes. Would like to see ArsoAssassin if possible.

Score: 7/10

Court Jester by cupecakeaj2

The Court Jester

Blue Dragon Killer
Musical Entertainment (Day) - Disable a random passive/ability that your target has for 2 nights. You will gain a use whenever a Blue Dragon dies. 0 Uses.
Rhapsody (Day) - Pick a player. All occupies, redirects, and attacks to you tonight will be redirected to that player. Bypasses occupation and redirection immunity. 1 Use. Gains another use at the end of every 3rd night.
Rope Trap (Night) - Set up a rope trap at a player’s room. If they get attacked or get converted, all visitors will be occupied through immunity the next night. 4 Uses.
Circus Accident (Night) - Select a player. They’ll be occupied tonight. They’ll die two nights later or when they visit you, whichever happens first. If they’re immune, they’ll be bled instead. You cannot use this ability while another player is currently affected by it. 2 Uses.

Converts into The Clown or The Acolyte
Cult Points: 2 - Each ability costs: Varies
Cult 1 Point Alt:
(Rhapsody): Blood Ode (Day) - Bleed yourself and another player. 1 Use.
(Rope Trap): Blood Aura (Night) - Frame a target for tonight and the next. 2 Uses.
Cult 2 Point Alt:
(Circus Accident): Rage of Mithras (Night) - Heals whoever the Cult Leader attacks tonight but the Cult Leader will be able to kill two players for free the next night. Only works if the Cult Leader uses Blood of Mithras. 1 Use.

The Clown

Unseen Offensive
Nightmarish Laugh (Day) - Prevent a player from voting for the rest of the day. If they already did, prevents them from changing it. 2 Uses.
Spotlight (Night) - Redirect all visitors of your first target to your second target but not vice versa. 3 Uses.
Tightrope Walk (Night) - Occupy your target. The next night they will be redirected to whoever they targeted last night.

orange’s analysis:

Court Jester

Musical Entertainment relies on RNG. Ew. I’d say to let them pick, but it’s hard to determine how many cases we should account for. If you try to disable a second day ability, but they only have one, do you disable the first or no? What if they don’t have any day abilities? Plus, couldn’t this lead to ability order being important on every class? All in all, I’d just ditch this skill, maybe find a replacement.

Rhapsody shouldn’t bypass occupy/redirect immunity, as we’ve been moving towards not bypassing these immunities recently, a change I think is for the better. At that point, though, I ask - why bother? If it were a Transporter swap, I could see this working out, but it’s another bait-skill, really. Come to think of it, we don’t have a Transporter either. That’s a damn shame.

Rope Trap is an ability I don’t really get, and it also bypasses immunity, which isn’t good. But really, why occupy the killer the night after? Or especially the converter the night after? It’s not protective, but it’s also kinda nonsensical. Not a fan.

Circus Accident is weird. Why not just bleed everybody, if the effect is the same (death two nights later)? Why the weird “if they visit you” thing? For a killer, this has pretty low kill power.

Clown

Nightmarish Laugh is really strong, especially in the endgame.

Spotlight is fine.

Tightrope Walk is just weird. I can’t think of many uses where the highly specific combination of occupy->force to visit who they were going to anyways is useful. Straight occupation would be cleaner, if you ask me, especially given the other abilities on this class are already quite strong.

Cult Alts

Blood Ode is actually a nice skill if you’re gonna be sacrificed anyways. I like it.

Blood Aura is pretty strong and a weird pick for an Acolyte. I’d change this.

Rage of Mithras makes no sense to me at all.

Final Thoughts

Court Jester is a weird mish-mash of ideas and concepts that pierces occupy/redirect immunity way too much, and also doesn’t really kill. Solid improvement over the original suggestion, but could still use more work in my opinion.

I do actually really like the Clown, though it has one Social skill, one Support skill, and one Offensive skill, leaving it without a single niche to fill. Still, could be good with a different base class.

Score: 5/10

Royal Guard by psychoneirik

The Royal Guard
Blue Dragon, Killer.
Public Execution (Day) - Sacrifice your life to kill a player in plain daylight. Cannot be used until Day 3. Cannot target the King. - 1 use.
Escort (Night) - Select a player. Anyone attempting to visit them will be immune to occupation and redirection. - Unlimited uses.
Coup (Night) - Kill whoever the King targets tonight, bypassing death immunity. Cannot be used until Night 3 - 1 use.

Cult points 2:
Cult alts :
1 point (Escort): Portal of Blood (Night) : Make the other cult members immune to occupation and redirection tonight. 1 use.
1 point (Coup): Mithras’ Crown (Night) : Secretly prevent the King from performing their night action. 1 use.
2 points (Public execution): Public Sacrifice (Day) - Sacrifice your life to kill a player in plain daylight. The cult leader won’t be able to use Blood of Mithras today. 1 use.

The Warden
Unseen, Killer. Converts from the Royal Guard.
Veteran Killer (Passive) - If you turn into the assassin, you will keep the “Public Execution” ability.
Public Execution (Day) - Sacrifice your life to kill a player in plain daylight. Cannot be used until Day 3. Cannot target the King. The assassin won’t be able to attack the night after you use this ability. 1 use.
Second Chance (Night) - Select a player. If the assassin is unable to kill their target tonight for any reason, you will attack said player. Unlimited uses.
Goal: defeat the Golden Dragon and any neutrals that seek to do you harm.

orange’s analysis:

Royal Guard

Public Execution is a very weak dayvig, considering you kill yourself. Probably too weak. A gladiator would almost be better.

Escort is interesting, but I’m not sure exactly what the use case for this is? Would be helpful on a Support class, but the killer is the one who really doesn’t want to get redirected, no?

Coup takes the control entirely out of your hands for a pierce kill. Not a fan of this at all.

Warden

Veteran Killer is pretty nice. For the converted Royal Guard.

Public Execution has a problem, however - I’m not a fan of a scum who’s been caught being able to just take somebody down with them for free. Ergo, I dislike these two abilities. They go from kinda weak on BD to really strong on scum.

Second Chance is just a Mafioso. That’s cool.

Cult Alts

Portal of Blood is probably fine.

Mithras’ Crown is unique, and again, probably fine.

Public Sacrifice suffers from the same issues as Public Execution, except now you just do it on a conversion night to avoid the restriction on the Cult Leader.

Final Thoughts

The Royal Guard is too weak and lacks control.

The Warder isn’t necessarily too strong, but its only purpose is to hit an eject button and kill somebody that would normally be protected at night. That’s not my favorite game mechanic.

Score: 3/10

Martyr by psychoneirik

The Martyr
Blue Dragon Killer
Divine Power (Day) - You can perform an extra action tonight. (You can use both abilities or use the same ability two times). - 1 use.
Penitence (Night) - Select a player. The effects of this ability are different depending on how many times you have used it on the same player. Unlimited uses.

  • First time: Contrition - Prevent all visits on your target.
  • Second time: Confession - Check your target’s class type.
  • Three or more times: Penance - Attack the player.

Absolution (Night) - The effects of this ability depend on how many times you have used it.

  • First time: Revelation - You will know who visits you tonight.
  • Second time: Purification - Prevent all visits on yourself tonight.
  • Third time: Salvation - Kill yourself in order to heal everyone else in the court. Your death cannot be prevented in any way.

Cult points 2:
Cult alts :
1 point: Divine Power (Day)
1 point (Penitence): Mithras’ Crown (Night) : Select a player. The effects of this ability are different depending on how many times you have used it on the same player. 3 uses.

  • First time: Confession - Check the target’s class type
  • Second time: Contrition - Prevent all non-cult visits on the player.
  • Three or more times: Penance - Bleed a player. They will die in 1 day unless healed.

1 point (Absolution): Blood Communion (Passive) - If you are sacrificed with Blood of Mithras, all other cult members will be healed.

The Sacrifice
Unseen Killer
Divine Power (Day) - You can perform an extra action tonight. (You can use both abilities or use the same ability two times). - 1 use.
Penitence (Night) - Select a player. The effects of this ability are different depending on how many times you have used it on the same player. Unlimited uses.

  • First time: Contrition - Prevent all visits on your target.
  • Second time: Confession - Check your target’s class type.
  • Three or more times: Penance - Attack the player.

Absolution (Night) - The effects of this ability depend on how many times you have used it. - 3 uses.

  • First time: Revelation - You will know who visits the unseen tonight.
  • Second time: Purification - All members of the unseen will appear not suspicious to investigators tonight.
  • Third time: Salvation - Kill yourself in order to prevent all visits on the unseen tonight and give the assassin an extra use of all their abilities.

orange’s analysis:

Martyr

Divine Power is interesting, and I could see it being useful. However, I’m not sure this really sees more use than killing and preventing visits to yourself, as other combos are just weird or result in your death, which is only really worth it if you read into a 2-for-1.

Penitence is nice in that, rather than restricting a kill to an arbitrary start date, it locks it behind other abilities. However, it also multiplies this lead-up into every kill. In particular, I don’t know why you would want to prevent visits to someone you wish to kill, or why you would kill someone you wish to prevent visits to. While you might argue that grants “depth” to the class, as it can target people it wants to protect and those it wants to harm, I’d argue it would be much better if it wasn’t so confusing in the process and just had two seperate abilities instead.

Absolution might as well be a one-shot visit prevention. Seeing your visitors is probably just filler you do on N3 if you don’t have anyone to kill, and the amount of times healing everybody and dying is useful is highly dependent on there being no healers and multiple bleed targets. Not sure how often that happens, and I think another healer would be a better solution.

Sacrifice

Divine Power is actually really strong on a scum role that knows a lot more about the gamestate than its BD counterpart.

Penitence suffers the same problem, except it’s now just a blank extra 0.33 KPN, plus some visit prevention, once per player. That’s a strong combo on scum, especially if you can prevent visits to other Unseen. Again, however, it’s too complex. Two abilities would work better.

Absolution is pretty much just the work-up to a one-for-one by recharging 2-for-1, but with two added abilities while getting there. Again, this is really strong on scum.

Cult Alts

Divine Power literally only exists to let you get off a one-night bleed without reducing the KPN bonus from 0.33.

Mithras’ Crown suffers from the same problems as Penitence.

Blood Communion is actually really nice with Spirit of Mithras, as you can prevent all Cult deaths on one kill night. Probably not super strong, but nice nonetheless.

Final Thoughts

The Martyr honestly just needs to be simplified down to a class with one vision, not six.

The Sacrifice needs the same, and is also super powerful as-is.

Score: 4/10

Enchanter by Meteoro

The Enchanter

Blue Dragon Killer
Enchant (Day) - Enchant a player,making them silently occupy inmune and unable to be healed.Targeting a enchanted player will unenchant them. - Infinite uses
Earth Spell (Night) - Target an enchanted player and another player,if the first visits the second or another enchanted player they will be bleed sometime tomorrow - Infinite uses
Fire Spell (Night) - If any player you enchanted visits anyone enchanted they will die bypassing night inmunity - 2 uses
Defeat the Unseen or Cult and any neutrals that seek to do you harm.

Converts into The Hex Master or The Acolyte
Cult points: 2
1 point Cult Alts
(Enchant)Blood Mark -Put a blood mark on a player.-infinite uses
(Earth Spell)Circle of Blood -Target a marked player.If they attemp to target any member of the cult they will be prevented and bleed sometime the next day.-3 uses
2 point Cult Alt
(Fire Spell)Magical Sacrifice -Sacrifice yourself and kill 2 players bypassing everything if they were Blood Marked or were enchanted by yourself.If they weren’t,silently bleed them,killing them on 1 night.You can’t be targeted by the Cult Leader’s Blood of Mithras when you use this.-1 use

The Hex master

Unseen Offensive
Hex (Day) - Permanently hex a player,and make them receive incorrect results the next night.All players you enchanted previously will be unenchanted and hexed(will not receive incorrect results)- Infinite uses
Hypnotize (Night) - Target a hexed player and another player.If the first attemps to target the unseen they will be redirected to the second and will be bleed sometime tomorrow. - Hypnotize uses
Magic Box (Night) - Target a unseen player and a hexed player.The unseen player will be guaranteed to visit your second target - 1 use
Defeat the Blue Dragon and any neutrals that seek to do you harm

orange’s analysis:

Enchanter

Enchant is actually a really nice double-edged ability. I like this a lot.

Earth Spell, however, I don’t really like. It’s semi-prediction based, yet also results in bleeds you don’t fully control. Plus, the “bleed sometime the next day” is reliant on the host, yet another reason to replace this particular ability.

Fire Spell, despite my liking of abilities that play into each other, is not an ability I enjoy. I guess it comes down to the fact that you’re a killer without real control - sure, you can enchant all of your scumreads, but this confers a benefit to them and won’t necessarily result in them dying when you try to kill them with Fire Spell.

Hex Master

Hex is decent. I don’t think the frame is necessary, but I do suppose good timing could be used to make it more effective, so that’s a positive aspect of its inclusion.

Hypnotize is probably fine without the host-dependant bleed. It’s great for keeping an investigative off your back for a bit, but is liable to be given away if they realize what’s going on (especially if it keeps happening). The bleed makes that even easier to figure out.

Magic Box is pretty neat, and I do like the idea of prepping a target without expressly strongmanning the visitor.

Cult Alts

Blood Mark and Circle of Blood are similar to hypnotize, and honestly I’d just make them work exactly like it and ditch the bleed.

Magical Sacrifice, however, is pretty useless without Blood Mark, as you are liable to want to kill people very different from those you’d enchant (especially if you were working on enchanting scum, as the Enchanter seems to want to do). Not a fan of this one.

Final Thoughts

The Enchanter has a great gimmick, but both of its night abilities fail to capitalize on it in a satisfying way, instead leaving most of the control out of the player’s hands.

The Hex Master is probably fine if you ditch the bleed.

Score: 6/10

Spiritual Warrior by Frostwolf103

The Spiritual Warrior

Blue Dragon Killer
Harmonic Combo (Day) - You select target that disables their immunity at next day vulnerable for further attacks and other negative effects until following night ended - 1 use
Critical Strike (Night) - You select target to attack and disrupts your target that is attempting to attack or use other negative effect otherwise it’s normal attack, you regain 1 use of Harmonic Combo when you or other attacker killed the target from your day ability only twice per game - infinite uses
Defeat the Unseen or Cult and any neutrals that seek to do you harm.

Converts into The Essence Warrior or The Acolyte
Cult points: 2
1 point Cult Alts
(Harmonic Combo) Combo of Corax (Day) - In addition of what your Cult Leader use whether it’s Disguise or Rupture, you can select the second target for one specific ability - 1 use / 2 uses
(Finishing Strike) Climax of Mithras (Night) - Select Rupture target that is about to die will also kill visitors to the target who doesn’t have death immunity - 1 use / 2 uses

The Essence Warrior

Unseen Killer
Purpose of Discord (Passive) - Emboldened by The Mastermind, you have occupation and redirection immunity as long The Mastermind lives, you also won’t turned into The Assassin
Pendulum (Day) - You select either The Mastermind or The Assassin, should they get attacked or by negative effects in following night then you take their place and attack back - 1 use
Power Attack (Night) - Kill a player, if you got Chronomancer, Drunk, Knight, Hunter, Prince, Spiritual Warrior or Neutral Killer dead by your kill or Assassin’s kill then you regain 1 use of Pendulum or your next Power Attack gains death immunity and heal bypass shared by only twice per game - Infinite uses
Defeat the Blue Dragon and any neutrals that seek to do you harm.

orange’s analysis:

Spiritual Warrior

Harmonic Combo - I can’t tell if this is only night immunity, or also occupation/redirection immunity. If the former, it’s alright in conjunction with Critical Strike. If the latter, it’s really good - but given the relative simplicity of the class, that might not be bad.

Critical Strike - I have no clue what this is trying to say by “and disrupts your target that is attempting to attack or use other negative effect otherwise it’s normal attack”, but I like that chaining Harmonic Combos into Critical Strikes is a thing. Even if this is just a normal kill, which is what I’m treating it as because I can’t understand what you were trying to say, it’s still really nice in conjunction with the day ability.

Essence Warrior

Purpose of Discord is a cool concept, except I don’t think it should be able to kill while the Assassin still lives, and I’m really not sure what would happen to future converts. The entire faction is built around the Assassin/Mastermind duology - anything that plans to disrupt that needs to have a plan to deal with the consequences.

Pendulum’s “kill the killer” dynamic is one I don’t at all like, if that wasn’t clear from the above classes. It’s unrewarding to be right and die because they converted another Killer, and if we can avoid that scenario in the game design phase we should.

Power Attack - why those specific classes? And can this and Assassin kill at the same time? Because if so, the Unseen’s KPN doubles with a Essence Warrior, making it objectively the best convert in the game. That’s just too strong.

Cult Alts

Combo of Corax should probably be 1 use, as two extra bleeds is probably too strong. Otherwise, not bad, and although I think double disguise will largely go unrealized, I love the potential for a high-skill play there, such as swapping the identities of two players, should they both die.

Climax of Mithras is definitely too strong. Turning a bleeding victim into a PGO is gonna lead to healers just letting people die from fear, or getting gibbed due to playing their part. Even one use is probably too much, as it completely changes how healers approach bleeds.

Final Thoughts

The Spiritual Warrior is probably a pretty good and pretty simple Killer. That’s a great place to be. I just hope I’m not too far off by assuming what I need to about how the abilities are worded.

The Essence Warrior is probably really overpowered, and leads to a bunch of weird scenarios we would need to seriously consider before adding such a class. Definitely needs more work.

Score: 5/10

Spiritual Warrior (Version 2) by Frostwolf103

The Spiritual Warrior

Blue Dragon Killer
Harmonic Combo (Day) - You select target that disables their immunity at next day vulnerable for further attacks and other negative effects until following night ended - 1 use
Critical Strike (Night) - You select target to attack and prevent your target from using sort of attack or other negative effect otherwise it’s normal attack, you regain 1 use of Harmonic Combo when you or other attacker killed the target from your day ability only twice per game - infinite uses
Defeat the Unseen or Cult and any neutrals that seek to do you harm.

Converts into The Essence Warrior or The Acolyte
Cult points: 2
1 point Cult Alts
(Harmonic Combo) Combo of Corax (Day) - In addition of what your Cult Leader use their day ability, you can use the opposite day ability such as Disguise or Bleed - 1 use
(Finishing Strike) Climax of Mithras (Night) - Select Rupture target that is about to die will also kill at least one of visitors to the target (does not kill those who have death immunity) - 1 use

The Essence Warrior

Unseen Killer
Purpose of Discord (Passive) - Emboldened by The Mastermind you have occupation and redirection immunity, you can carry out your attack when by any reason The Assassin’s atttack failed.
Pendulum (Day) - You select either The Mastermind or The Assassin, should they get attacked or by negative effects in following night then you prevent their action on your target even through their occupy/redirect immunity - 1 use
Power Attack (Night) - Kill a player, in addition you kill any sort of Unique Classes, your next attack bypasses death immunity and Healing and guards by only twice per game - Infinite uses
Defeat the Blue Dragon and any neutrals that seek to do you harm.

orange’s analysis:

Spiritual Warrior

Harmonic Combo - I still can’t tell if this is only night immunity, or also occupation/redirection immunity. If the former, it’s alright in conjunction with Critical Strike. If the latter, it’s really good - but given the relative simplicity of the class, that might not be bad.

Critical Strike - I guess it’s cool that you prevent your target from harming others while you kill them. Definitely unique.

Essence Warrior

Purpose of Discord, along with its other abilities, basically make this the Assassin’s best friend and the world’s best Mafioso. It will basically never fail unless it hits a guarded/healed target.

Pendulum is a neat way to save the Assassin from a kill or occupation or whatever, but I think this ability to could stand to be stronger, especially given Mastermind is night immune.

Power Attack’s bonus is now kinda useless, unless I’m reading Purpose of Discord wrong. After all, if you can only kill if the Assassin’s kill fails, then what are the chances that you get to kill a unique class on one fail, and then have the Assassin fail again for you to get another kill through healing? I think this works well as a counter to an Assassin getting perma-occupied, but not much else. Still, a Mafioso-type interaction is never bad.

Cult Alts

Combo of Corax is now much weaker, but that probably works out fine. After all, Disguise will actually be use much more often now, and that alone is a good thing. Funnily enough, I’d make it two uses now.

Climax of Mithras - how do you determine “at least one”? Does that mean one is picked randomly? Because I don’t like RNG. Does that mean it pierces immunity if only immune people visit? Because that is even stronger. Without a real change to how this funcitons, it is either still too strong or too random.

Final Thoughts

The Spiritual Warrior is probably a pretty good and pretty simple Killer. That’s a great place to be.

The Essence Warrior is literally the Assassin’s best friend. It leans hard into the Mafioso aspect, with pretty much all of its abilities focused on letting the Assassin kill, or killing on its own if the Assassin can’t. Not a bad spot, but I could see giving it a bit more power being a good idea.

Score: 7/10

Warlord by cupecakeaj2

The Warlord

Blue Dragon Killer
The Adiart Empire (Passive) - You are immune to death on the first three nights.
Protectorate (Day) - If your target dies tonight, you will gain a use of Casus Belli. You will gain another use whenever a Blue Dragon dies at night. You can not gain more than 1 use per night. 1 Use.
Peace Treaty (Day) - Select two players. If one of them attempts to attack or convert you or the other tonight or the next night, you will occupy them and attack them. If the attack fails, you will gain a use of Warmongerer. You will gain another use whenever Casus Belli is used. 2 Uses.
Warmongerer (Night) - Attack a player. You will gain another use whenever a non-Blue Dragon dies. You will lose 2 uses if you kill a Blue Dragon. If the attack fails and you attack them again the following night, you will be guaranteed to kill them. You can have -1 Uses. 0 Uses.
Casus Belli (Night) - Attack up to 2 players. If all players you attacked are Blue Dragon, you will lose all uses of all abilities. Upon killing 2 non-Blue Dragon (doesn’t matter if it’s by Warmongerer or Casus Belli), this ability will be disabled. 0 Uses.

Converts into The Revolutionary or The Acolyte
Cult Points: 2 - Each ability costs: Varies
Cult 1 Point Alt:
(The Adiart Empire): Last Battle (Passive) - Any Cult member who is attacked at night will be healed and then bled sometime the next day. Only triggers once.
(Protectorate): Branding Ritual (Day) - If your target dies tonight, they will be sacrificed to Mithras instead of the Cult member the Cult Leader chose. Cannot be used on Cult members. 2 Uses.
(Warmongerer): Open Wound (Night) - If whoever the Cult Leader attacks tonight survives, they will be bled. 1 Use.
Cult 2 Point Alt:
(Peace Treaty): Banishment (Day) - Prevent two players from visiting each other for the rest of the game. 2 Uses.
(Casus Belli): Corax’s Vengeance (Night) - Select a Cult member. If they die tonight or the following day and it wasn’t caused by Blood of Mithras, they will automatically be sacrificed to Mithras the next night.

The Revolutionary

Unseen Offensive
Secret Spies (Passive) - Whenever there is a King election, you know who everybody votes.
Greater Adiart (Passive) - Upon conversion, the Assassin will be able to kill two players the next night.
Replacement (Day) - Swap roles with the Assassin or Mastermind. 1 Use.
Traitors (Night) - All Killer classes that visit a member of the Unseen tonight will instead be occupied and attacked. 3 Uses
Break In (Night) - Guarantees all visitors to your target visits your target. (Bypasses occupy, redirect, prevention) 3 Uses

orange’s analysis:

Warlord

Adiart Empire is not a skill I am ever likely to support in any capacity. It just needs to go. Make it one-shot bulletproof if you really want to, but not this.

Protectorate, I assume, gives you bonus uses of Protectorate when a member of the BD dies, as opposed to bonus uses of Casus Belli (it is written confusingly). If this is true, I like this setup. If this assumption is false, why bother with the stacks? You’ll have way too many.

Peace Treaty is quite strong - I don’t know that I like it lasting an additional night. Additionally, I can see trying to convert a Warlord being a right pain. Still, not broken.

Warmongerer is an interesting skill. Why does it get more uses as more scum die? That seems kind of backwards, although it also means that you can chain kills together insanely well. Negative uses is also an interesting concept. I like the guiltless kill and the ability to re-attack a lot.

Casus Belli is also pretty interesting. Did you mean for it to encourage two attacks? Because attacking one BD incorrectly is awful, but attacking two people always makes it less likely that you’ll hit two Blue Dragon than if you just go for one. I can’t see any use-case where you don’t go for two kills here, especially because the punishment is so harsh.

Revolutionary

Secret Spies is, in my personaly opinion, not as useful on a scum class as it is on BD, although I do realize that makes the BD class somewhat confirmable. In short, I’m not convinced it really does all that much for this class, but sure, why not.

Greater Adiart would probably be better served just giving the Assassin an extra use of 2-for-1.

Replacment is actually crazy strong - Mastermind about to get lynched? Not any more! At least it has a huge Achilles’ heel in that if you’ve already claimed Warlord, you’re immediately suspect. I might look into making this a night ability though - daytime role swapping is a lot.

Traitors is another self-deafeating skill. Why do so many people want to kill people who are rightfully killing the Unseen? I don’t get it. Just remove this and make Replacment a night ability and you’re set.

Break In is neat because it doesn’t bypass heals or guards, giving it a seperate niche from Enforcer and letting it help the Mastermind as well. Solid.

Cult Alts

Last Battle is actually a really interesting ability, and as long as it doesn’t heal the Cult Leader’s Sacrifice, I think it’s really unique to let them just buy time. Normally, I’d want it to be a day ability instead of a passive, but given you have to have converted one of your killers and used a Cult Point on this, I think a passive activation method is fine.

Branding Ritual is probably fine as long as you can’t just use it on the Cult Leader’s kill targets. Otherwise, this gives you three extra free kill nights (four total free kills, incluiding Acolyte’s innate ability and Blood of Mithras’ first free kill), which is probably too much.

Open Wound is fine.

Banishment is weird - is this known to them, or will they just be prevented if they try? I can think of so many uses of this, and I’m afraid it could be a bit much if it’s silent. In that case, however, the obvious fix is just to make it last as long as you yourself live.

Corax’s Vengeance looks like it just gives you free kills if you can predict which Cult member dies? Not a fan of this being infinite uses, at most it should be like two. Even then, though, the strat will be just outing yourself if you’ve been suspicious to proc this via lynch. Not the best, but at two uses I think it’ll be fine.

Final Thoughts

The Warlord is a great base, but I think Casus Belli and Warmongerer are a tad redundant. Getting a kill with Casus Belli gives you a new attack with Warlord, and Casus Belli provides huge incentive to go for two kills every time already. Plus, the punishment for missing a Casus Belli is extremely harsh, preventing you from doing anything until another non-BD dies (which may well be entirely out of your control). I like this class, but I’d probably change Casus Belli - I just don’t know how, at least not yet.

The Revolutionary just needs to drop Traitors and make Replacement a night ability, and it’s basically great. I really like this submission.

Score: 8/10

Executioner by psychoneirik

orange’s analysis:

Executioner

Death Sentence seems like it should just be a day ability?

Execute seems fine.

Witness Protection also seems good, but I’m afraid that you’ll end up protecting someone with this you might want to kill if they’re converted. The once-per-game nature of Death Sentence makes this impossible.

Hangman

Death Sentence, again, should just be a day ability. I don’t know why it’s not.

Tight Noose is quite strong, beating out the Servant at occupying people. Whether this is too much or not depends largely on how strong the Executioner ends up being. I would, however, be tempted to make this activate if they try to use a different ability, should it require a change.

Forged Records is also strong, beating out the Aristocrat at framing people. I don’t think the Executioner is weak enough to deserve the Hangman being straight-up better at these tasks than other Unseen classes. I’d probably tone it down a bit.

Cult Alts

Veil of Blood is cool and unique. Not bad.

Forbidden Seal is probably fine due to the requirement that you still live.

Final Thoughts

The Executioner is not bad, although I worry that conversions really screw with it, given it can only deathmark a player once.

The Hangman is probably too strong for being an Executioner convert, but nerfing both of its abilities a bit shouldn’t be hard. Granted, I’d probably replace the frame with a more offensive skill, such as a teleport/swap.

Score: 7/10

Headhunter by Unknown

The Headhunter

Blue Dragon Killer
Focused on Target (Passive) - You cannot be redirected.
Evaluating Failure (Passive) - If you kill a Blue Dragon, you cannot use your abilities the next night
Punishment (Day) - If the one you use Hunt Accomplices on tonight was one of those responsible for an execution of a Blue Dragon today, attack them. - Infinite uses
Determine Habits (Day) - Pick a starting class except Prince, Mastermind and Cult Leader. If you use Hunt Accomplices tonight on someone with this starting class, attack them. - 3 uses
Hunt Accomplices (Night) - Target someone. If they were converted last night, attack them. - Infinite uses
Decapitation (Night) - Target someone. If they are the Cult Leader, Prince or Mastermind, you kill them. This cannot be prevented. Your target cannot convert you tonight. - 1 use
Defeat the Unseen or Cult and any neutrals that seek to do you harm.

Converts into The Bribed or The Acolyte
Cult Points: 2, each ability costs 1.
Cult Alts: Punishment -> Bloody Punishment (Day) - If the one you use Hunt Associates on tonight was one of those responsible for an execution of a member of the Cult today, attack them. - 1 use
Determine Habits -> Determine Habits (Day) - Pick a starting class except Prince, Mastermind and Cult Leader. If you use Hunt Associates tonight on someone with this starting class, attack them. - 1 use
Hunt Accomplices -> Hunt Associates (Night) - Target someone. If they were visited by a Blue Dragon Investigative last night, attack them. - 2 uses

The Bribed

Unseen Killer
Distracted by Wealth (Passive) - You are occupied the night after you got converted.
I am no Assassin (Passive) - You do not turn into the Assassin
Escort (Day) - Target The Mastermind. If they would be imprisoned, kill the Prince instead. You cannot use abilities tonight. - 1 use
Urgency (Day) - You cannot be occupied tonight if no Assassin is alive. - 1 use
Decapitation (Night) - Target someone. If they are the Cult Leader, Prince or Mastermind, you kill them. This cannot be prevented. - 1 use
Death to the Blue Dragon! (Night) - If no Assassin is alive, attack your target. Else, determine what caused the Assassin’s attack to fail. - Infinite uses
Defeat the Blue Dragon and any neutrals that seek to do you harm.

orange’s analysis:

Headhunter

Focused on the Target is a good skill for a Killer.

Evaluating Failure is a weak punishment. I’m always okay with that.

Punishment is a unique kill setup that prioritizes not mislynching people. I’m not sure that’s that great, but I suppose it does fit the theme by basically guaranteeing you can always kill the daytime leaders.

Determine Habits is weird. It looks like it’s primarily meant for the Assassin, but can also be used outside of that to go for other converts - with a risk. I think I like forcing them to choose “Observer” instead of “Seeker” when taking the plunge on somebody they think was converted, so I guess this isn’t bad.

Hunt Accomplices is pretty lackluster, but given the ability to power it up on a whim, that’s probably intentional.

Decapitation is pretty unique, but I’m worried that the ability to gib the Mastermind through his immunity is so much stronger than the ability to gib the Cult Leader that this role’s power will vary too much between the two factions. Still, I like the double-edged sword approach.

Bribed

Distracted By Wealth is an interesting downside, but I’m not sure this is strong enough on its own to need it, especially because, after the Prince is dead, this class is almost entirely useless.

I Am No Assassin is definitely significantly more manageable than trying to replace the Assassin with a new killer, I guess.

Escort is gonna just lead to MM baiting Prince into jailing them. Not sure I like that at all.

Urgency is cool for the extra likelihood of getting a kill off in a dire situation, I guess, but I just don’t know that this is strong enough to make up for missing an Assassin post-Prince.

Decapitation is literally useless once Prince is dead. That isn’t great. Sure, you can kill the Prince if they weren’t already dead, but still.

Death To The Blue Dragon! should probably just be a Mafioso-style ability instead, honestly.

Cult Alts

Bloody Punishment is really strong, being just a free kill. This is on top of Hunt Associates, which is more kills.

Determine Habits is significantly stronger on a scum class that wants to go after unconverted people.

Hunt Associates is not weak, as any BDI that outs their check for any reason has just sentenced them to death. Not sure if I’m okay with this or not. However, the other two Cult Alts are, in my opinon, too much on top of this for sure.

Final Thoughts

Headhunter is probably okay. The Cult Leader and Mastermind are both replaceable, so you’re not out of a job until the endgame, and even then you can go for anybody who votes against BD, or with a correct guess.

The Bribed probably needs to be completely reworked. I think the idea of a class that can’t be the Assassin is neat, but one whose literal only purpose is to kill the Prince is definitely not the way to go. I’d lean into the Mafioso aspect much harder, personally. Removing most of the Prince-focused abilities and giving it some extra (and generally applicable) powers would be the way to go.

Score: 5/10

Highwayman by Kape

orange’s analysis:

Highwayman

Guilty Conscience is probably fine, not really acting as a punishment, just a limitation.

Anemic is a cool passive that I think I’ve suggested on something else before, but I don’t remember. I’m not convinced that a Killer is the best place for it, though, given your abilities are kind of… loud. Also, outing means you’re dead in two days.

Tracking Shot basically just refills Riposte any time you make a kill, plus any kills you correctly predict. Not sure the class really synergizes with this ability all that well - it obviously makes it stronger, but making other skills start with zero uses might be a better way to build this into the kit. An extra use would also be more forgiving to missing one call, although I don’t know that’s really necessary as long as you can track your own target.

Crippling Shot is actually kinda weak? Not sure when you’d really want to attack somebody you know won’t die, and if you don’t know they won’t die, why aren’t you using Tracking Shot? Lastly, how often are you going to attack somebody evil who survives that isn’t also immune to occupation? I think this ability could stand to be replaced with a stronger one, such as making your Pistol Shot tonight pierce immunity, but starting with zero uses.

Pistol Shot’s bleed punishment is something I immediately dislike, especially when paired with Guilty Conscience. Maybe if Guilty Conscience was disabled while you were bleeding, I’d be more okay with this.

Riposte, as discussed above, would probably be better off if it started at zero uses. Given the changes I suggested to Guilty Conscience and Crippling Shot, I think a zero-use Riposte could be fine, especially if using Crippling Shot could also power it up into attacking all visitors.

Brigand

Anemic is obviously much less of a drawback on an Unseen Killer than just about anything else in the game.

Ambush is really strong, if you can predict a Prince jail (i.e. bait a Prince jail). Not sure I’m a big fan of this.

Blanket Fire is also something I’m not sure I’m a fan of, although at least it’s liable to be traced back to you if people catch on?

Clean Guns is basically just a free kill (2-for-1), free bleed (Hidden Blade), and free Prince kill attempt (Ambush), all at once (the only other limited use skill that could be used during this time is Foresight, but who cares about that?). I think this kind of skill would work better on the Cult.

Final Thoughts

I like the direction the Highwayman is going, and I think with some of the tweaks I suggested above it could really come into its own as a sort of Vigilante/Veteran combo, but one who is significantly more of a glass cannon, a cool archetype no Killer role yet fills.

I’m much less a fan of the Brigand as is - getting the Prince without having to determine who they are isn’t very skillful, Clean Guns can basically give two free kills, one guaranteed to be on Prince, and a bleed, and Blanket Fire is a bit too general to be all that, well, tactical. I’d work on replacing some or all of these active abilities.

Score: 5/10

Cavalry by WazzaAzza

The Calvary

Blue Dragon Killer
Marching (Passive) - You are redirect immune.
Sneak Attack (Day) - If target player has voted you today. You will kill them in broad daylight and be revealed as the attacker. - 1 use.
Veteran (Night) - Any players who visit you and are not a member of the Blue Dragon will be redirected into themselves. - 3 uses.
Spear Attack (Night) - Attack and kill a player. If they are a member of the Blue Dragon they will not die. - 1 use.
Your objective is to defeat the Unseen or Cult and any Neutrals that seek to do you harm.

Converts into The Horseback or The Acolyte
Cult Points: 2 - Each ability costs 1
(Sneak Attack) Sacrifice - Kill a player and yourself, additionally allow the Cult Leader to convert a new player tonight bypassing the cooldown. - 1 use.
(Spear Attack) Whisper - The Cult Leader’s Blood of Mithras will not kill a Cult Member tonight. - 1 use.
Two Cult Point Alt Ability:
(Veteran) Leader Protection - Kill all attackers or investigators that visit the Cult Leader tonight. - 1 use.

The Horseback

Unseen Support
Riding Along (Passive) - You are redirect immune.
Charge! (Passive) - The Assassin will gain and extra use of 2-for-1 .
Bang (Day) - If the Assassin bleeds someone today, the player will die instantly. - 1 use.
No Entry (Night) - Mark all players that visit the Mastermind tonight. The players will be told to the Unseen, if they are attacked by the Assassin , the attack will bypass immunity. - 2 uses.
Your objective is to defeat the Blue Dragon and any Neutrals that seek to do you harm.

orange’s analysis:

Cavalry

Marching is a good skill for a Killer.

Sneak Attack is not a skill I like at all. Bait votes, use this, be instantly confirmed. Nothing about this is sneaky at all.

Veteran is an odd skill but okay. At least it’s not the usual “kill the people trying to kill you” that’s been in like half of these suggestions and the Hunter already has.

Spear Attack would probably be better off able to kill members of the Blue Dragon, but with more uses. Not a fan of a Killer with one kill, even if it is forgiving on a miskill.

Horseback

Riding Along is a good skill, but this class literally does not visit, so what’s the point?

Charge! is a free kill. Nothing more to say.

Bang is a weird way to work in a dayvig, but I guess I kinda like that approach to it.

No Entry is weird - does the mark last more than one night? That’s unclear. Either way, I don’t think this is really all that useful, which I guess explains the stronger day ability/passive.

Cult Alts

Sacrifice is probably strong? Not sure how delaying the kill night like this really works out.

Whisper is just stupid to have. The Acolyte literally already innately does this. Don’t give it a second one.

Leader Protection is not a skill I love, but it’s probably not super overpowered. Still, bait skill.

Final Thoughts

The Cavalry as-is is basically just a free confirm and then a sentient kill. That’s not great gameplay, and plus is just kinda bland. Marching doesn’t fit on the class at all either, at least not as-is. This class is just a mess. Would definitely rework both Sneak Attack and Spear Attack entirely.

The Horseback is basically just a free kill and a bleed upgrade to a dayvig. That’s cool, except now you’re kinda just there with not much to do, given you’ve already given the Unseen a great boost. The strat at this point is probably a suicide accusation so the Unseen can just convert someone else. And if your class’s ideal strategy is to just sacrifice itself immediately, that’s probably not great.

Score: 2/10


#247

Nuke there’s no way you read this that fast :laughing:


#248

I’ll probably look at my own under the same lens later, see how it stacks up

Obviously I like the things I chose to do with it so I’m not expecting a bad review but I also don’t think it earns a 10 in any world


#249

I just read mine again.


#250

I didn’t change it


#251

Indeed you did not


#252

i give up trying to think of a balanced class. i apologize for this


#253

thank you

i dont need a ninth hour of this


#254

At first it was way more complex and it had no space for another day ability but I forgot to change it and left it as a passive. I agree its better as a day ability.


#255

@Geyde I edited the executioner and its converts


#256

Hey orange


#257

@orangeandblack5 Say hi to me >:(


#258

The Promised self-aNalysis

Ranger by orangeandblack5

The Ranger
Blue Dragon Killer

Guilt (Passive) - If you kill a member of the Blue Dragon, you will be unable to use Archery for the rest of the game.
Bullseye (Passive) - Your target may not be changed, even by an ability that goes through redirection immunity.

Broadhead (Day) - If you loose an arrow tonight, you will kill your target through immunity, and your attack cannot be healed. (1 use)
Gather Arrows (Day) - If you loose an arrow at one of your marks tonight, you will also kill the others. (1 use)

Archery (Night) - Loose an arrow to kill your target. This does not count as a visit. (Infinite uses)
Mark (Night) - Place a mark on a target. You may have up to three marks. Targeting a marked player with this ability will remove the mark. Targeting yourself will remove all marks. (Infinite uses)

Defeat the Unseen or Cult, and any Neutrals that seek to do you harm.

Converts into The Bandit.


The Bandit
Unseen Killer

Bullseye (Passive) - Your target may not be changed, even by an ability that goes through redirection immunity.

Explosive Bolt (Day) - If you shoot a bolt tonight, you will kill your target through immunity, and your attack cannot be healed. (1 use)
Blackmail (Day) - If your target uses a day ability today, they will use it on themselves. This includes abilities that take effect the following night. (2 uses)

Crossbow (Night) - Shoot a bolt to kill your target. This does not count as a visit. If the Assassin attempts to carry out a kill, you will instead shoot their target for them. (Infinite uses)
Swipe (Night) - You will remove one use of all of your target’s use-limited abilities. (1 use)

Your objective is to Eliminate the Blue Dragon and any Neutrals who stand against you.


orange’s analysis

Ranger

Guilt is a decently harsh punishment. Not my favorite, but it’s also not causing you to kill yourself or anything (cough Knight cough), so as long as the rest of the class can build around dealing with Guilt, either through a non-Archery ability or a way to make it matter less, this should be fine.

Bullseye is a good skill for a Killer.

Broadhead is powerful, allowing you to take out a Mastermind or the NK if you can hit them. However, messing up will kill your target even through a heal, giving this ability a bit of a double edge.

Gather Arrows is nice, because it allows you to minimize the effects of Guilt by unleashing several kills at once. As such, this class acts more like a Firebrand than a typical Vigilante, but can snapshot, even through immunity, when needed.

Archery is a simple yet solid killing skill, with no immediate drawbacks for misfiring and with no autotargeting/avoiding killing BD if you mess up. Sometimes, simple is best.

Mark is stronger than a typical Firebrand, as you can actually remove marks should new info come to light. This, again, helps you avoid Guilt. Plus, you can still kill, even if you’ve used Gather Arrows to shoot all your marks (provided none were BD).

Bandit

Bullseye is really nice for an Unseen Killer to have.

Explosive Bolt is really nice, allowing you to pierce a heal to guarantee a kill.

Blackmail is pretty strong, allowing you to shut down the day abilities of anybody you wish, including ones that affect the next night. Useful against a variety of threats, if you can predict them.

Crossbow truly capitalizes on not counting on a visit when combined with Bullseye, making the Bandit a much more reliable killer than the Assassin. Additionally, the fact that you have kill priority instead of being the backup means that Explosive Bolt will never be unused due to the Assassin succeeding.

Swipe is an extremely powerful skill to have, which is probably good since most of the time this class is just carrying out the kill.

Final Thoughts

The Ranger is simple yet effective, with many ways to help minimize its Guilt passive and a very high skill ceiling. As a pure killer, it fills a niche neither Hunter nor Knight currently do.

The Bandit is a decent Mafioso-type role, with a few strong abilities in its back pocket to allow some really strong tactical plays without having anything too flamboyant.

Score: 9/10

Again yes I’m biased because my own suggestion is what I like but meh

@Margaret patience is a virtue, I wasn’t even on this thread :roll_eyes:


#259

Hi orange

I know you’re going to hate this… but

I posted my class :wink:


#260

are you kidding me


#261

reeeeeeeeeeeeeee


#262

seems legit