BotF IV discussion thread

We’re going to get rid of all of the other means of conversion besides mephit; mephit is one of the only options we have for that minion slot
also we’re getting rid of huntsman / damsel / golden child

updated idea:

townsfolk

general
bon viviant
mole
magician
engineer
astrologer
leper
preacher
pixie
knight
stableboy
fisherman
scavenger

outsiders

golem
plague doctor
hermit
puzzlemaster

minions

wizard
marionette
mephit
goblin

demons

al-hadikha
lleech
creeping terror
palabra de dios

thoughts @Tangeld?

@Simon here’s my description doc of all known unreleased roles:

I have confirmation from a clocktower mod that their devs and mods are more than comfortable with marshal and I running a game with unreleased roles here if long as we do two things:

  1. be extremely clear and bold in our efforts to clarify that not only is this an unofficial unreleased, custom-made script, but it’s almost as much fan-made as it is dev-made (as I and other people had to add a lot of stuff in to the information we had from the devs to make the roles understandable and usable)
  2. rename every role we use to one that doesn’t exist among any of the released or unreleased roles in BotC, to make it even more clear that this script is fully unreleased and unofficial

@Tangeld pls give ur opinion on this updated role list when ur around

Leper is an unfortunate addition to a script with no night killpower aside from that of the Demon, and doubly brutal to an Al-Hadikha spawn, as any Leper chosen by Al-Hadikha will always choose death to poison Al-Hadikha.

Preacher seems… not terribly useful, given that the Minions on the script are two OPG effects, an ability that requires the Minion to publicly use it (which they won’t do if they’ve been Preached), and a Minion that doesn’t even have an ability in the first place. Also, I believe Preacher fundamentally clashes with Marionette, since the Marionette isn’t supposed to know that they’re a Minion (and Preacher announces itself to any Minion it chooses).

Engineer is shockingly powerful on this script given another issue you have; the Demon type is basically guaranteed to be known by the start of D2.

  • Creeping Terror is known instantly on D1, since it acts the first night and two players will know that they were marked.
  • Palabra de Dios makes itself known immediately once D1 ends, and also, how exactly does that play in a non-live game, given that the trigger is alive good players raising their hands?
  • Al-Hadikha is known at the start of D2 for the same reason as Creeping Terror (it affects three people at once).
  • If none of these are visible, then you have Lleech. And Lleech in general is weird with any effect which changes the Demon type, since the Lleech has to pick its poison target as soon as it enters play and cannot pick people who are already dead (so its options have already shrunk by merit of entering play after the start of the game).

Those are the mechanical issues I can see. As to issues of personal preference, I think that General, Fisherman and Wizard are tricky to run in general, and known info on Puzzlemaster is IMO too nebulous for that character to even be run in the current state. And if you’re looking for a Minion to use (mentioned in the OP), might I suggest one that acts a bit more publicly (e.g. Sicilian, Fearmonger, Psychopath)? A running trend in BotF games seems to be that our Minions are deathly afraid to act wolfy even though they can actually benefit from doing so (since they need to keep the Demon alive first and foremost), and I think a publicly acting Minion will shake that up nicely. You could swap Mephit out for one of those and clean up the Outsider list with Golden Child or Charlatan (if you’re keeping Hermit on, I’d say GC over Char) so that you still have turning evil on the script.

Widow and Ringmaster are both cool minions IMO but neither can exist without removing Magician / Mole first since they get to see the grimoire

And I’d rather run a game with Mole first. Also we plan to change mole a bit and give it a bluff of one of the out-of-play minions (so it isn’t as good odds for demon to guess them when they’re cornered)

So remove puzzlemaster, engineer, preacher, mephit, and leper.

I think I want to add psychopath for the last minion.

I’m confident in my ability to run wizard, so I’m going to keep it in. Ultimately, when the wizard wants, they choose the wish they want to make. We ST’s will talk and discuss whether that wish will be okay to grant in the current gamestate and if we can create a price that will effectively balance it (neither too costly nor too cheap) and what we would publicly make the clue to that wish. Wizard’s existence only becomes mechconfirmed if/when the wish is granted. I’m also confident that we could handle a wizard wish resulting from plague doctor with an interaction that would be a net positive to the evil team.

I agree that General and Fisherman can be too subjective, so I will remove them.

We’ll add Golden Child for the last outsider.

For replacement townsfolk:

I like Prophet (which would force us to be okay with adding released travelers as a result of the prophet ability, but I’m fine with that)
I like Noble
I like lion tamer (if you think it’s a more balanced replacement for leper that is)

With Puzzlemaster out of play, Nun might be okay? Not sure.

I like bounty hunter but the extra evil team member it gives to start might be broken

General in particular is off as a character to me because it requires the Storyteller to make nightly calls on whether good or evil is winning. You’ll recall that I wrote Artist in BotF to be that the Storyteller could legally answer with “I don’t know”, and that was included specifically to address questions like “Is good winning?” because having to make that call is very subjective in a game where good can quite literally win on a random execution hitting the Demon.

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pls provide ideas on good replacement townsfolk for the ones we’re removing due to your suggestion. Anything that exists in the document below is fair game:

Amnesiac, Cannibal or Insomniac could work well here, Insomniac less so if you’re reducing night killpower (since only one person dying each night basically turns Insomniac into a reverse UT).

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The thing to remember about Bounty Hunter is that it causes a Townsfolk to start evil, and an evil Townsfolk isn’t woken with Minions or Demons. It’s a lost wolf, plain and simple.

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And Lion Tamer is more balanced than Leper, given that it runs the risk of trading rather powerful Town characters for protection from Demon, and pushing too hard for neighbor deaths makes their identity rather obvious (but that could still be the Scavenger).