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Agent & Double Agent


#1

I’ve tried to come up with an unconfirmable, yet fun Blue Dragon social by merging Merlin & Retribution with an already-proposed feedback-intercept ability. I think the end result seems fun and balanced … on paper at least.

Killing a player during the day is obviously confirmable, but because of the ability for Unseen/Cult to easily convert or kill an outed Agent, it’s counter-productive if not used to eliminate the very last evil.

I admit I don’t have any precise idea for elegantly implementing this insta-convert/kill feature.

The Agent

Unique Blue Dragon Social

Eavesdrop (Passive) - You can read Unseen/Cult night chat, but speakers are unlabeled and anonymous from your perspective. They are notified an Agent is eavesdropping.

You are also notified everytime a day ability is used, but not who used it or who it was used on.

Undercover (Passive) - The Unseen/Cult are given one opportunity to blow your cover. If they identify you, you will be instantly converted (or killed, if there is no room).

Impersonate (Night ability - Infinite uses) Trollbox the Unseen or Cult chat. If you mistakenly impersonate a Blue Dragon or Neutral player, your trollbox will simply be labeled “Agent” from their perspective.

Neutralize Target (Day ability - 1 use) - Kill a player during the day. If they are Blue Dragon, you will also commit suicide.

The Double Agent

Unseen Social

Eavesdrop (Passive) - You can read prison chat.

You are also notified everytime a day ability is used, but not who used it or who it was used on.

Undercover (Passive) - You appear not suspicious to Expert Investigation. You do appear as Double Agent to Surveillance, though.

Impersonate (Night ability - 2 uses) Trollbox prison chat as either “Prince” or the prisoner.

Intercept (Night ability - 2 uses) - Occupy any investigative classes visiting your target, and receive the feedback they would have received.

Daytime class flips were once infallible, but Disguise changed that for the better. So why must nighttime evil and prison chat be infallible? Just imagine how funny the trollboxes would be in those circumstances …

Someone may object that this will silence the evil chat and prevent them from communicating entirely. But I don’t believe this would be the case. If the Agent reacts too transparently to what he learns from night chat, he can be identified and insta-converted/killed. You can also feed him false information.


#2

I feel like this is way too chaotic to be non unique.

also itd make scumchat way too much of a task to hide information.

night results cant just be told to one another.
its a swingy class.

plus dayvig is unnessecary


#3

it’d have to be unique in it’s current form


#4

also unseen/cult would know if one existed instantly.

much like day trollboxes.

Repeat that?


#5

like now you cant ask to convert a specific player.
you cant announce foresight results.

you cant announce ability results.
cant tell the convert what to do as that will out what the convert is


#6

also the fact of knowing how many unseen/cultists are living is another no no


#7

Cult is less affected here than Unseen.

but the fact that you know what Cult classes could exist is another no.


#8

this would out your target and you are basically a pseudoinvestigative.

otherwise. oh lol, agent exists…

cool


#9

Thanks for your feedback

I feel like this is way too chaotic to be non unique.

Oops. It is supposed to be unique but I forgot to add that when I rewrote it with formatting.

also itd make scumchat way too much of a task to hide information.
night results cant just be told to one another.

This is balanced by the difficulty of utilizing what you learn from scumchat without exposing yourself as Agent (remember that outed Agent = instantly converted Agent) It is also easily countered, especially if we allow the evils to know that an Agent is listening in.

its a swingy class.

True

plus dayvig is unnessecary

You never actually use the dayvig unless

  • A) There is zero to at most one Unseen or Cult remaining, and
  • B) You know who they are

also the fact of knowing how many unseen/cultists are living is another no no

Agent does not know the number of living unseen

Speakers are not distinguished, just “Speaker:” more or less


#10

So the Unseen or Cult know if there is an agent, yes?


#11

I was undecided on that so I did not specify whether or not they know if agent exists


#12

Trust me, this ability is bad enough if they know that Agent exists because it destroys coordination(which is a reason for ditching the daykill with knowledge because it is already strong enough).
If the Agent is NOT known to exist then the Agent gets the most powerful(in the coordination denial) when it is NOT there because it harms the play of scum without existing and will never flip to tell scum that communications are now safe.


#13

Could use a different name.

Unfun. Shuts down chat entirely. Ever seen the old spy in town of salem? Have it only what day abilities are used.

Since I am against the night chat this will need a rework.

I’m actually quite fine with this to be fair. My only concern is that it always reads the chat and collects too much info. EDIT: Make it a night ability and it should be fine.

I don’t like this though. Trollboxing in jail/scum chat will just lead to repeating sentences.

Very underpowered. in most games there’s only a fraction of the BD that’s investigative.


#14

When I saw this class yesterday I thought I was hallucinating from lack of sleep

I was wrong


#15

Don’t make scum chat useless


#16

The criticisms of scumchat-reading would be fair if they acknowledged the Undercover passive which is supposed to balance it:

Undercover (Passive) - The Unseen/Cult are given one opportunity to blow your cover. If they identify you, you will be instantly converted (or killed, if there is no room).

Why doesn’t anyone think this nerfs the Agent enough to make scumchat-reading not OP?

I agree with everything else everyone has said tho


#17

Nothing would balance out not using your main communication feature


#18

Agent does not prevent evils from using scumchat

Because he must hide the fact that he knows what was said

There’s a class (Merlin) in a certain social deduction card game who starts knowing all evils

But if the evils find out who he is, the evils get a free win…

But the agent doesn’t even know who the evils are, he just reads their chat

So I don’t see how it’s unbalanced or mutes scumchat


#19

Have you played ToS with scum-chat-reading spy?
It’s not really unbalanced.
Only annoying and renders scumchat almost useless.


#20

I have not, although I read a lot about it since making this thread. This Agent is more comparable to Avalon Merlin than ToS Spy though, which is why I don’t think the comparison is fair at all since they completely ignore the fact that an outed spy gets instantly converted even during the day

And that is what makes it balanced. I tried my best to emphasize that but the feedback is demonstrating I am bad at explaining things